Expansion tank question

[Palantirion]

 To excessively condense the story: I am taking back ownership of fixing my Avanti due to yet another incompetent mechanic. I have already solved several persistent leaks after discovering that certain transmission and oil pan bolts were not torqued to spec. And the upper dipstick tube was not connected to the lower, so the dipstick tip was just hanging in mid air. Fun stuff to discover 😒

I was chasing down the remaining leaks today and when I had my R1 (actually an R2 block with R1 innards, long irritating story) idling I noticed that the expansion tank was vibrating a lot more than the engine. I put a little downward pressure on it with my hand and its vibration sync'd with the engine's. Then I noticed what seems to be an unused bracket below it. I am concerned that maybe the brazing of the tank might fail sooner from the excessive vibration (it has failed before), so if I can secure it better I want to. Advice?

Also, the upper radiator hose is resting against the battery bracket stud threads. That's not right is it?
 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Palantirion

[1963r2]

I thought there was a bolt/ threaded rod on the bottom of the expansion tank that tightened onto that bracket.

pb

[studegary]

I only have a small picture/computer screen, but it appears to me that the radiator hose can be moved further onto the radiator nipple.  This will alleviate or eliminate the problem.  I think that the tank should be fastened to the bracket.  

[mfg]

I think your upper radiator hose may be reversed....The straight 'ends' are not the same length...and if you turn it around it will probably clear the battery bracket....This is a very common situation, as the upper hose will fit either way!....good luck!...Ed

[mfg]

And yes, there should be a 1/4" stud at the base of expansion tank which slides into that 'L' shaped steel bracket.

[regnalbob]

This is what you need on the bottom.

Also the battery hold down and the power steering cover use wing nuts.

 

[mfg]

I like the insulated fuel line.....not a bad idea!

[Palantirion]

Thanks so much for the ideas guys! 

And if during its last "repair" the stud on the bottom of the expansion tank was not brazed back on? Then what...

And if it is there, should there be a washer between the tank and the bracket? Something was there before, judging from my pic. Or perhaps a rubber washer?

 

p.s. Is the tank brazed together (what I had been told), or soldered? Because I can do the latter, have not attempted the former.

[mfg]

52 minutes ago, Palantirion said:

Thanks so much for the ideas guys! 

And if during its last "repair" the stud on the bottom of the expansion tank was not brazed back on? Then what...

And if it is there, should there be a washer between the tank and the bracket? Something was there before, judging from my pic. Or perhaps a rubber washer?

 

p.s. Is the tank brazed together (what I had been told), or soldered? Because I can do the latter, have not attempted the former.

A thin rubber or plastic washer between 'L' shaped bracket and tank bottom would not be a bad idea, however, there was nothing there originally.

The expansion tank halves are soldered together.

[Palantirion]

Did some work today. See pics of my improvised short term solution for the expansion tank. My car will be in an art museum for a month in a week and a half, and I don't have time to properly remove/repair the tank before then. A very ghetto repair, but now the tank doesn't vibrate out of sync with the engine any more. Drilled and tapped a piece of scrap pine (from a stake) for a spare bolt I found, then shaped it with a knife to fit with just a little upward pressure on the tank, then adhered a little pad of hi temp silicone to dull any micro impacts.

And speaking of vibrations. See the pic of the trans dipstick. It's blurry because it's bouncing a lot more than the rest of the engine vibrates. Makes me wonder if it's missing a bracket towards the top or something.

[mfg]

Not a bad temporary repair!

[regnalbob]

.

The stud is not soldered to the tank. It is a weld stud.

 

The bracket is slotted and can be adjusted at the block to raise it so the tank will rest on it.

There should not be that much space between the bracket and tank.

 

[Palantirion]

6 hours ago, regnalbob said:

.

The stud is not soldered to the tank. It is a weld stud.

 

The bracket is slotted and can be adjusted at the block to raise it so the tank will rest on it.

There should not be that much space between the bracket and tank.

 

-Hmm, well I wonder why I am studless then. Frustrating.

I can look into adjusting the bracket, that's a really good tip! Would you consider it resting firmly on the bracket (on on a silicone pad on that bracket) to be an appropriate long-term solution? There wouldn't be a connection in tension, and there would be more strain put on the water pump fitting than if it were secured via a positive connection.

[regnalbob]

You could try an adhesive mount stud on your tank.

They are available form McMaster-Carr.

316 stainless steel studs have excellent resistance to chemicals and salt water and may be mildly magnetic. Large holes allow adhesive to flow through the base for a secure hold.

 

If you are not concerned about authenticity you could replace your tank with a surge tank elimination kit available from Studebaker vendors.

[Ntenna]

Here's what keeps that tank steady in our R-2. Not saying this is "original" but it is an almost daily driver, and has no shakes.

[Paul K.]

I have a few tanks here if you need one.  If I remember I have both versions for Studebaker and the later Chevy engines. 

[Kodjo]

I suffer from a leaking expansion tank. After the 3th time I'm done with it and looking for options.

Question about the "surge tank elimination kit" available from Studebaker vendors: This is not a expansion tank but an overflow catch tank, right? How does the engine cope with the expanding cooling fluid with this kit installed?

[psdenno]

I replaced the tank with the elimination kit about 40 years ago.  No issues.  The older elimination kits used an inline filler neck from a Mustang.

[Kodjo]

A, I found a nice article about this. Click An overflow tank not only collects the expanded fluid, but also returns it when the coolant contracts.

Strange system, haven't seen this in Europe yet. We use expansion tanks, much simpler system in my opinion. Downside is that it is hard to find filler necs and overflow tanks out here. The elimination kit is quite expensive, especially with postage and import duties.

 

[Avanti83]

Kodjo This is how the SBC powered Avanti's were delivered without an expansion tank. I would think all the parts should be available from local sources. If the "tee" is from a Mustang then there should be some in your part of the world. 

I don't know about auto suppliers in your country but there must be a source like Summit Racing here. All of the parts are generic and should work on your car. The only part that might need to be fabricated is the neck on the engine but ISTR that other US types fit with minimal modification. If not a piece of SS plate could form the base and a short tube could be welded to make the hose connection.

 

[Leo B]

On 11/22/2021 at 8:34 PM, Kodjo said:

I suffer from a leaking expansion tank. After the 3th time I'm done with it and looking for options.

Question about the "surge tank elimination kit" available from Studebaker vendors: This is not a expansion tank but an overflow catch tank, right? How does the engine cope with the expanding cooling fluid with this kit installed?

Hope this explains.
Surge Tank Elimination Kit works like in... Volvo Amazon etc. Expansion Tank.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Leo B

[Kodjo]

N

1 hour ago, Leo B said:

Hope this explains.
Surge Tank Elimination Kit works like in... Volvo Amazon etc. Expansion Tank.

Yes, the concept is clear. The Volvo has the European solution though (or I miss read the drawing, could be).

I think it is like this:

With the expansion tank solution, the pressure valve sits on the tank, like with the Volvo. The tank holds pressure. I call it, just for reference, the European solution. 
 

With the surge tank solution, the pressure valve sits in between the radiator and tank. The tank holds no pressure. This could be called the US solution. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Kodjo

[Leo B]

9 hours ago, Kodjo said:

N

Yes, the concept is clear. The Volvo has the European solution though (or I miss read the drawing, could be).

I think it is like this:

With the expansion tank solution, the pressure valve sits on the tank, like with the Volvo. The tank holds pressure. I call it, just for reference, the European solution. 
 

With the surge tank solution, the pressure valve sits in between the radiator and tank. The tank holds no pressure. This could be called the US solution. 

Avanti Surge Tank is easy to understand this way: With surge tank the radiator is higher than engine and the coolant level is this way also ower engine (like vintage cars). One cap works as a pressure control cap and filling cap. This simple solution has just one problem: Needs unnecessary space between hood and engine.
PS. Owerflow catch tank is just a tank which collects owerflow liguid from surge tank or expansion tank and can be added afterwards = Radiator Overflow Kit. (Studebaker International)

[Kodjo]

4 hours ago, Leo B said:

Avanti Surge Tank is easy to understand this way: With surge tank the radiator is higher than engine and the coolant level is this way also ower engine (like vintage cars). One cap works as a pressure control cap and filling cap. This simple solution has just one problem: Needs unnecessary space between hood and engine.
PS. Owerflow catch tank is just a tank which collects owerflow liguid from surge tank or expansion tank and can be added afterwards = Radiator Overflow Kit. (Studebaker International)

I can be wrong but I assume the "Radiator Overflow Kit" is in fact a surge tank. when the engine cool down, coolant is sucked back intor the radiator from the overflow/surge tank.

You are right, with a surge tank the tank does not have to be at the highest level. An expansion tank must be at the highest level. That is why my tank is on top of the engine and the tank from Avanti83 is not. Said that, maybe the Volvo has a surge tank after all 🙂 Hard to tell from the drawing.

Nevertheless, I'm going to restore the original expansion tank as I do not like the other options.

[Kodjo]

The expansion tank keeps leaking, each time in a new location. Now I think I have discovered what the problem is: there is G13 coolant in my Avanti. That appears to affect lead (in the solder)!

What coolant do you use; G11 or G12?