SBC into 63 avanti, suggestions other than don't

[Guy]

Wanting suggestions on the installation of sbc into 63, motor mount placement and whatever considerations about hood clearance would be appreciated.

[Zedman]

I can offer you photos taken of my 1981 Avanti Frame stripdown. These were used for references.

• Photos of the Front Crossmember showing the placement of redundant original Studebaker Lark mounting holes and the pattern shift to accommodate a Chev V8.     These would be as per Avanti Factory original.
• Pictures of the Engine mounts and Shims.  I daresay you could Purchase these from Dan Booth in Wixom.
• Photos of the Transmission mount and its position within the Daytona 'X ' Member (I have a TH350C auto trans.

Regards...

 

[Zedman]

17 hours ago, Zedman said:

I can offer you photos taken of my 1981 Avanti Frame stripdown. These were used for references.

• Photos of the Front Crossmember showing the placement of redundant original Studebaker Lark mounting holes and the pattern shift to accommodate a Chev V8.     These would be as per Avanti Factory original.
• Pictures of the Engine mounts and Shims.  I daresay you could Purchase these from Dan Booth in Wixom.
• Photos of the Transmission mount and its position within the Daytona 'X ' Member (I have a TH350C auto trans.

Regards...

 

Hi Guy- Photos sent via PM at your request,,,

[mfg]

Small block Chev to Avanti  frame front engine mounts available from Studebaker International ( L&R steel frame mounts)

[Zedman]

Be aware that many SBC's around late 1970's through to early 1980's had problems with cam and lifter wear (particularly giving 305 cid haters more justification to vent).  My Avanti II's 305 (1981 year) showed horrific wear on three lobes and 80% of the lifters utterly destroyed- and only 65,000 original miles !  How it ever ran, I don't know.  If you're not intending to rebuild a second hand engine, at least look at the Lifters and Camshaft, Timing Gears and Chain. You ought to look at an Automatic overdrive transmission swap while the opportunity presents,  unless of course you'd like a 4 or 5 speed manual...

[mfg]

I lost a cylinder in the factory 305 in my ‘83 Avanti everyday driver due to a worn cam… I replaced this original motor with a ‘Goodwrench’ 305 in 2010 and that engine is still running very well…. Improvements were made in factory replacement small block Chev 305’s in ‘86-‘87.

[Mel]

A few thoughts:

My 66 had the original B/W auto trans. which I had swapped out for a 700R4.  As I understand it, that transmission was made for the 'B' body (big) GM cars -- Caprice, etc., (which were a lot heavier than an Avanti) and were electronically controlled.  A couple of kits were installed to adapt it to throttle (only) control.  The shift from 1st to 2nd is of higher RPM, probably to get a Caprice (tank) moving, than is required for the Avanti and the shift is 'solid' if accelerating slowly but smooth if accelerating hard.  I've not tried adjusting the throttle adjustment but a GM guru I ran into was not surprised.  It may just be the nature of the beast with the throttle control.  I don't like to dog it so the 1st to 2nd shift gets a little annoying.  I've not had any experience with a 350 but the above is something I'd keep in mind.  But if you are going the distance to do an engine swap, I'd definitely think GM transmission.  An overdrive drop the rpm to ~2150-2200 at 70mph and lets you hear the person sitting next to you.

Regarding the cam and lifter wear.  I was not familiar with these sbc motors being notorious for having this trouble but these flat tappet cam engines need zinc.  You can read up on this but, as I understand it, zinc molecules in the oil create a microscopic clearance between the lifter to cam lobe and the rod bearing to crank journal surfaces.  You can buy ZDDP additive but Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil and Shell Rotella fit this bill.  The parts stores often have to order this from their warehouse.

Good luck.

[Gunslinger]

During that time period SBCs were notorious for having soft camshafts...particularly the 305.  This was even before there was any controversy over ZDDP in motor oils but it was being cut back some by that time.  

[Dwight FitzSimons]

Not to wander too far from the subject, but Mobil 1 now has the following high-zinc formula "Classic 10W30 for vehicles from 1951-1996."  Full synthetic, of course.

--Dwight

 

[mfg]

Wow…I hadn’t heard about this new oil…. Thanks!

[Guy]

Thanks for the input from all of you,I didn't  know  about that oil either. Good info 

[Kodjo]

Just curious, will it fit? A SMB into a Studebaker Avanti? If it does, I would like to lower the front of my '69 Avanti II.

About the camshaft; been there. Replaced the shaft and lifters.

[Gunslinger]

Body orientation as far as sitting level or having the rake as the Studebaker Avanti has is all about body shims and not suspension…unless the front springs have compressed…a not uncommon thing with the Avanti.

[mfg]

It’s been said for a long time that Altman had to shim up the Avanti’s body to add clearance for the ‘taller’ Chevy V8… I’ve always doubted there was an engine height problem… I believe he simply thought the Studebaker Avanti’s nose down attitude did not fit his thoughts of how his new Avanti ll personal luxury car should look.

[Geoff]

"SBC into 63 avanti, suggestions other than don't"
I would only stand on the DON'T pedestal if it was a car of marvelous condition and/or had a chance of being a complete and original car.

It is possible to visually fake an early II into a Studebaker. You get more than halfway there upon cutting the front fenders to match Studebaker's profile, and raking the nose.

1 hour ago, mfg said:

It’s been said for a long time that Altman had to shim up the Avanti’s body to add clearance for the ‘taller’ Chevy V8… I’ve always doubted there was an engine height problem… I believe he simply thought the Studebaker Avanti’s nose down attitude did not fit his thoughts of how his new Avanti ll personal luxury car should look.

I agree. Studebaker's block is akin to Cadillac's big block so I need a lot of convincing that a Chevrolet small block has any bigger dimension and won't fit. Newman & Altman just wanted their Avanti to be "a gentlemanly cruiser" and removed the nose down rake.

[Gunslinger]

There's truth here to each opinion.  Nate Altman said he never liked the Avanti's "rake" when he stated the height of the Chebbie engine made the change mandatory.  While others have opined the height of the Chebbie and Studebaker engines aren't significantly different...you have to keep in mind that the engine mounts may not be located at the same place on the block plus to use the SBC it takes the mounting brackets fabricated to use the SBC engine...so the effective height of the Chebbie might be higher.  

Studebaker designed the engine mounts for the SBC for Lark platform cars where height was of no matter due to the different engine bays.  It was of more critical difference in the Avanti engine bay even though the frames were essentially the same.  

[bob caser]

Altman , did not like to look of the rake on the Avanti. I am attaching photos of a 1964 Avanti that I own with a Chevy engine with no modification made to the body at all. Over the years I have owned this car it has had a variety of Chevy engines with none of them necessitating body or chassis modifications.

 

[Geoff]

Gunslinger, you bring up some valid points. Motor mount locations on the chassis and block are interesting to think about with regard to clearances. An R3 parallel would be the Granatellis lowered RS1021 in 1025, whereas on the production R3's they shimmed up the body.

Another area where I have experience was when I had a '69 Vette, looking through catalogs like Summit for intake manifolds. I had to be alert for the footnote, Will not clear stock Corvette hood. I probably could have gone with a repro L88 hood, though hood replacement is but one solution and must be factored in to the budget.

One of my friends made fun of the "salad bowl" the Ford Thunderbolt cars had, especially when another friend was modifying the engine in his Chevelle. The jokester would dole out a good ribbing, "You're going to have to put a salad bowl in your hood, your modifications won't fit otherwise 😆" The Chevelle's mod. list altered and no salad bowl was needed. Ford however, needed that bulge and it's there for good reason.

[Gunslinger]

I had a ‘69 Corvette L71…three deuces on top of the 427.  I know where you’re coming from regarding hood clearance.  Even with the big block hood clearance was tight…a very low profile air cleaner and an intake manifold that was more sunken than high rise.

[bob caser]

I'm confused what does a Thunderbolt or a Corvette have to do with the question that was asked regarding a Chevy engine being installed into an Avanti.

[Geoff]

On 12/8/2024 at 10:12 PM, bob caser said:

I'm confused what does a Thunderbolt or a Corvette have to do with the question that was asked regarding a Chevy engine being installed into an Avanti.

I took an offshoot about clearances and solutions about working within confined spaces; there is relevancy.