Gentleman/Woman’s Avanti!

[mfg]

I’ve often wondered if Studebaker Corp. could have sold a few more Avantis if they had offered a more ‘sedate’ version…

I’m speaking of an automatic transmission, power steering, power windows, and possibly air conditioned version… powered by Studebaker’s super smooth, reliable, and fuel efficient 259 CI V8.. with a 2bbl or small 4 bbl carb and quiet exhaust system?

Did Studebaker miss the boat by advertising their ‘new’ Avanti ONLY as a red hot, high performance car?

I think Nate Altman considered that!

Edited June 27 by mfg
Spelling

[Gunslinger]

Arguable at best.  The reality was Studebaker could not produce the Avanti in appreciable numbers to begin with and sales were lost along with what goodwill and publicity they had.  It’s all well known and no reason to go over that.

The Ford Mustang was often marketed as a secretary’s car…six cylinder and economy oriented where the Avanti was marketed as an upscale vehicle.  Ford was looking for mass sales while Studebaker looked the Avanti as a halo car…sales were certainly wanted but also to bring in foot traffic to sell Larks and some Hawks…Studebaker’s bread and butter cars.  The Lark series were the secretary cars and economy minded buyers.  The Avanti was more directed at the Buick Riviera, Ford Thunderbird and Pontiac Grand Prix market.  

[aardvark]

Personally what could be more sedate than a 289 Auto with A,C.?

Studie was in a state of disarray, and competing and seeing the upcoming  Muscle/Sport market. There were other options for the "Tamed", like the Lark., and other options.

[mfg]

All true!

If Studebaker had lasted a few more years perhaps the company eventually would have introduced a tamer Avanti… something along the lines of Altman’s early Avanti ll, for the doctor/lawyer set!

[Footer]

You just have to wonder what could have been if Studebaker had held on for a few more years. Getting Avanti production smoothed out and with their economy minded Larks with the looming gas crises on the horizon maybe things would have been different. Mike

[Mark L]

Plus, they had a 4-cylinder engine in development in the early 1960s. If a decision had been made to put it in production, that might have also helped the company when the gas prices shot up.

[Nelson]

I doubt they ever wanted to sell a lot of Avantis as it was more of a ploy to get people to change their perception of Studebaker and get customers into the show room. I think the Avanti was an expensive build for the company and the only way it could make a profit was to load the car up with options. So maybe s sedate version marketed to the wife or single woman may have worked. You have to remember though that back in 1963 a wife with family needed a four door and most women’s role in life was to raise a family not look cool in the work force.

[Skip Lackie]

On 6/27/2024 at 5:27 PM, Gunslinger said:

Arguable at best.  The reality was Studebaker could not produce the Avanti in appreciable numbers to begin with and sales were lost along with what goodwill and publicity they had.  It’s all well known and no reason to go over that.

The Ford Mustang was often marketed as a secretary’s car…six cylinder and economy oriented where the Avanti was marketed as an upscale vehicle.  Ford was looking for mass sales while Studebaker looked the Avanti as a halo car…sales were certainly wanted but also to bring in foot traffic to sell Larks and some Hawks…Studebaker’s bread and butter cars.  The Lark series were the secretary cars and economy minded buyers.  The Avanti was more directed at the Buick Riviera, Ford Thunderbird and Pontiac Grand Prix market.  

"What-if" exercises are always fun and thought-provoking, but Gunslinger hit the nail on the head.  By the time Studebaker had straightened out the Avanti's production problems, the company was too broke (and the Avanti's reputation too sullied) to build anything except plain-Jane Lark-types -- and with store-bought Chevy engines to boot.  "Studebaker -- The Life and Death of an American Corporation" by Donald Critchlow is an excellent history of the business side of Studebaker.  It confirms that the banks were tired of the red ink and simply wouldn't lend the company any more money.  They would not approve ANY plans for new models, and were very reluctant to even allow the company to continue production of the Larks in Hamilton.  The latter move was approved only as a means to starve the existing dealers into quitting, and thereby avoid the penalty payments that would be due to some of them if the company quit providing cars.

The company made some poor choices and bad decisions (like designing a V8 engine that was state-of-the-art at the time, but had no capacity to be increased in displacement), but the winds of commerce and public opinion were against the independents anyway.  The Packard purchase/merger with Studebaker was a disaster ("two drunks holding each other up"), the Avanti production problems were a disaster, the company's obsolete facilities and expensive labor costs were a disaster -- the list is long.  The company had been in the news for a long time for all the wrong reasons.

Those of us who are old enough to have actually bought a car in 1963/64 remember that very few people were seriously looking at Studebakers.  They had become a niche manufacturer. I don't remember anyone in my circle of family and friends who actually owned a Studebaker.  My then-roommate was in the market for a new car car in 1964, and we actually looked at both GT Hawks and Avantis.  He ended up buying a Buick Riviera.  425 cubic inches, 340 horsepower and VASTLY more refined than the Avanti.

Edited June 29 by Skip Lackie
Misspelled Critchlow

[Gunslinger]

37 minutes ago, Skip Lackie said:

Those of us who are old enough to have actually bought a car in 1963/64 remember that very few people were seriously looking at Studebakers.  They had become a niche manufacturer. I don't remember anyone in my circle of family and friends who actually owned a Studebaker.  My then-roommate was in the market for a new car car in 1964, and we actually looked at both GT Hawks and Avantis.  He ended up buying a Buick Riviera.  425 cubic inches, 340 horsepower and VASTLY more refined than the Avanti.

During those years my dad owned a newspaper and his personal policy was to buy from those who purchased advertising space in his paper.  When he wanted a brand new car for the first time he wanted a Buick Riviera (new at the time...this was late '63 or early '63) but the local Buick dealer didn't advertise with him...so he went to the local Pontiac dealer and bought a new '63 Grand Prix.  There was a fairly closeby Studebaker dealer at the time that advertised with him occasionally but the Avanti wasn't my dad's cup of tea...he might have been interested in a Hawk GT but for whatever reason didn't seem interested in one...maybe it wasn't even on his radar screen to begin with.  

My dad may have had his thoughts colored by a previous experience with Studebaker.  My mom said they once had a '39 Studebaker that was the worst car they ever owned.  

[Dwight FitzSimons]

On 6/27/2024 at 1:45 PM, mfg said:

I’ve often wondered if Studebaker Corp. could have sold a few more Avantis if they had offered a more ‘sedate’ version…

I’m speaking of an automatic transmission, power steering, power windows, and possibly air conditioned version… powered by Studebaker’s super smooth, reliable, and fuel efficient 259 CI V8.. with a 2bbl or small 4 bbl carb and quiet exhaust system?

Did Studebaker miss the boat by advertising their ‘new’ Avanti ONLY as a red hot, high performance car?

I think Nate Altman considered that!

Studebaker did offer a more sedate, or grand touring, version of the Avanti, but not as a package, and not advertised as such.  One could order an Avanti with R1, AT, PS, AC, power windows, quiet mufflers, AM/FM (in 1964), tilt column (in '64), etc.  In fact, as I've gone from young to old my tastes have changed from R2/R3 and 4-spd to just the kind of grand touring Avanti that I have just speced.  Perhaps Studebaker could have stolen a few Rivera and T-bird buyers by advertising such a GT Avanti.

[mfg]

What GREAT responses…. Some of this text should be in AVANTI MAGAZINE!

[Gunslinger]

Studebaker also had some serious and inherent problems not directly related to the Avanti.  When Sherwood Egbert became President of the company he visited many dealers to get a feel for them.  He sensed they were very loyal to Studebaker but very unaggressive at sales.  There also the issues that not all of the country was assigned dealers so many areas had no Studebaker presence at all…and many dealers were dueled with other makes that were bigger profit makers for the dealer and some were simply mom and pop dealers…a repair garage that was technically a Studebaker dealer but only kept a few cars at a time.  
 

The Avanti program was really stuck between a rock and a hard place…the crash program to bring the car to market without sufficient lead time led to defects that would or should have caught during testing and caused production delays and problems with cars that did get into hands of consumers.  If Studebaker had given the program sufficient lead time the company probably would have still had the money cut off without any Avantis being produced for sale.  The end result would likely have been the same…Studebaker exiting the automotive business.  
 

As I’ve heard it…the Avanti was a “magnificent failure”.  

[aardvark]

I guess I don't know enough about Studie History.

One thing is obvious to me though... The Avanti was a forward thinking design when all Studies other options were starting to look dated. 

( I think I can state that with some authority being a Designer myself by Trade)

Add to that, with the sales of the Co overall and financials looking bleak, I'm actually surprised it was ever built....Very glad it was and quite impressed it continued into the later years by side sources after Studie closed their doors. What other car has EVER Done That and without significant body design changes? That took some exceptional doing of some firm enthusiasts and prior employees.

So I own a '63' R2 and a '02'  The '02', I doubt ANYONE saw the AVX coming.  I am quite the Enthusiast and a small time Collector (6 cars at present)..When the '01''s emerged, I never knew of it until last year. They were less known than De-lorean , Bricklin or other oddities that emerged,. Also far superior due to the TA and Stang platforms.

So I'm no good at looking back on what happened or how it might have been different. I''m just thrilled that the ''Avanti Legend'' continued as far and as long as it did.

........

I might add. ...Is the Stang Platform going to be the last Avanti?  I've seen some exceptional Concept Drawings and designs on paper. I'm not holding my breath and turning blue, but maybe... Just Maybe!!

Edited June 30 by aardvark

[bob caser]

As has been previously Studebaker did offer a sedate  Avanti , unfortunately the competition offered a better product for that type of customer.

In the fall of 1963 our household had a new " sedate" Avanti and also a Buick Riviera, sorry but the Buick was a better vehicle. Smooth , quiet, powerful and with better seating area. Some, Avanti quirks such as a second gear start with the auto trans, engine cooling issues, and muffler's placed beneath the front seats which caused the interior to become very hot, issues that the competition did not have. These were small issues that Studebaker should have resolved before offering the car for sale.

My experience of trying to order a "spec " Avanti through the dealer network was terrible. I lived in the metropolitan New York area with established  dealers who had no interest in ordering a Avanti. We bought our car from a dealer who had to trade to another dealer in order to get a Avanti. There was a 63 supercharged car that seemed to be passed from dealer to dealer for demo rides. I assume that this was a factory owned car that was in the region to support sales.

We bought the Avanti for $ 4,500.00 in October of 1963 ,and less than two months later the factory announced it was closing. The value of the car went to half six weeks after we bought it. That's okay , because I still own the car and have amortized my depreciation over the last 61 years.

 

 

[mfg]

Very interesting story Bob… thanks!

[aardvark]

Bob... It didn't depreciate.... just the opposite. X 10 +...(if in VGC).

Considering Inflation, Your still likely to be at a break even point.

[Skip Lackie]

Thanks Bob.  Great story.