Avanti/Studebaker History

[mfg]

One thing that has thankfully faded into history is the strained relationship between Studebaker Avanti owners, and owners of other Studebaker models, that existed in the late 'sixties' and well into the 'seventies'.

I recall, as a young fellow at the time, Studebaker owners who did not consider the Avanti to be a 'real' Studebaker...and conversely Avanti owners who, (with Studebaker auto production kaput), didn't want to admit their beautiful Avanti even WAS a Studebaker product !!

I remember a few local Avanti owners prying the Studebaker nameplate off the deck lid of their cars, filling the holes in or replacing the Stude nameplate with an 'Avanti' script. (the same script as on the front nose panel)

I'm glad to see that today all of that silly animosity is a thing of the past..however, the mentality I've described once definitely existed!...Ed

Edited November 2, 2023 by mfg

[Geoff]

Ed, I'm a late X'r so I didn't see the animosity between Studebaker & Avanti in the 60s and 70s. Though today I notice SDC & AOAI operating as two separate entities, and more than that, it's like they go out of their way to be separated. I would love to see them co-mingle.

My Blake era car says Avanti on the trunk but I will make that change to read Studebaker. I look at every Avanti and think, "Without RL doing work for Studebaker, the Avanti wouldn't be here." It's because of that I connect all Avanti models to Studebaker.

True, not all Avantis have Studebaker engines. These days not all Mustangs have Ford engines either. Some owners like to take the gen. III & IV GM small block and swap that in because: less weight, more power, LS & Vortec interchangeability, huge aftermarket support, etc…

Once my car is done, It'll be driven anywhere and everywhere. I live in Maine with family still in California. My build does plan for an LS and I'll take it to LS-fest west (Las Vegas), east (Kentucky), and LS-fest Texas. My plan also calls for Corvette front and rear sub-frames, and I would love to attend Corvettes at Carlisle with it. If I hear of a Cars & Coffee gathering within a day drive and enough notice, I'll leave my house whenever I must to get there, just for C&C. Then drive home.

I can hear people saying, "Don't forget to dance with the one who brought you." And I get that, I will attend SDC & AOAI meets. However, it would be so much nicer if those could be one and the same.

[r1lark]

Unfortunately there is, at least in the SDC, still a bit of amount of animosity between owners of stock vehicles and modified vehicles. I see it on the SDC Forum at times.

Edited November 3, 2023 by r1lark

[Gunslinger]

You’ll see similar in other car groups…Mopar…Corvette, etc.  There’s always tension between purists and those who modify.  There are some who don’t accept any but Studebaker built Avantis as the genuine article…later cars are factory resto-mods to them.  Some believe the Avanti is little more than a factory custom Lark.  If you want to drop a grenade to start a flame war with Mustang aficionados…just say the Mustangs is a re-bodied Falcon.  There’s some truth to those but it was a time before the term “badge engineering” was coined.

[Skip Lackie]

I've owned both Studebakers and an Avanti II for a long time, and I do not remember any animosity between Stude nuts and Avanti nuts.  I do despair at the current feuding between SDC management and AOAI over attendance at intl meets.  It seems both childish and inexcusable.

[mfg]

11 hours ago, Skip Lackie said:

I've owned both Studebakers and an Avanti II for a long time, and I do not remember any animosity between Stude nuts and Avanti nuts.  I do despair at the current feuding between SDC management and AOAI over attendance at intl meets.  It seems both childish and inexcusable.

 Avanti II's were admired by both Studebaker Avanti owners and owners of other Studebakers, as at that time all were thrilled a Studebaker derivative was back in production.

[Nelson]

I would say with certainty that in the 70’s, Avanti II owners were embarrassed to admit they were actually driving a Chevrolet powered Studebaker. I remember how proud they were when they took the Studebaker off the deck lid and replaced it with a Avanti II emblem. I felt I was paying dues for an Avanti II club magazine. So I just dropped out for many years. I think those days are behind us now and I’m again a member. 
It’s  amazing that in the 70’s the consensus in the club magazine was the lowered front end on the Stude Avanti made it look nose heavy and the fat fender, jacked up Avanti II somehow looked right and Studebaker just missed the boat in styling. 

[mfg]

22 hours ago, Nelson said:

I would say with certainty that in the 70’s, Avanti II owners were embarrassed to admit they were actually driving a Chevrolet powered Studebaker. I remember how proud they were when they took the Studebaker off the deck lid and replaced it with a Avanti II emblem. I felt I was paying dues for an Avanti II club magazine. So I just dropped out for many years. I think those days are behind us now and I’m again a member. 
It’s  amazing that in the 70’s the consensus in the club magazine was the lowered front end on the Stude Avanti made it look nose heavy and the fat fender, jacked up Avanti II somehow looked right and Studebaker just missed the boat in styling. 

Yes..I've often wondered if the Chevy engine really was  higher than the Stude V8 when mounted in the Studebaker frame....Or was raising  the front of Avanti ll's simply a styling exercise?

[Nelson]

If it was a styling exercise, which I doubt as it cost money to add a filler panel in the fender, I would say it flunked a styling study miserably. To me the car just looked clumsy with those modified fender openings. I’ve owned three Avanti II’s and enjoyed them. I just prefer the Stude version.

[Gunslinger]

I don’t think it was the physical or measured height dimensions of the Chevy engine per se…but it’s mounted height when the height of the adapters between the engine and frame added in.  It must sit higher to clear everything where the Studebaker engine was designed to sit lower.

[Dwight FitzSimons]

George Dimitsas once offered fiberglass filler panels for Studebaker Avantis & Avanti IIs which were intermediate between the Studebaker Avanti front wheel opening and the Avanti II wheel opening.  We once had a chapter member with an Avanti II with that mod and it looked just right.  To me, the Stude Avanti's front wheel opening is too large (high), but Avanti Motors overdid it when adding that filler panel.  Everybody to his own opinion, though.

--Dwight

[Nelson]

They may have raised the body from the frame to get more clearance between the floor and drive line. Possibly so more air would circulate in that area and not heat the cabin? That’s probably giving them a little too much credit though.

[mfg]

12 hours ago, Dwight FitzSimons said:

George Dimitsas once offered fiberglass filler panels for Studebaker Avantis & Avanti IIs which were intermediate between the Studebaker Avanti front wheel opening and the Avanti II wheel opening.  We once had a chapter member with an Avanti II with that mod and it looked just right.  To me, the Stude Avanti's front wheel opening is too large (high), but Avanti Motors overdid it when adding that filler panel.  Everybody to his own opinion, though.

--Dwight

I'd probably give my left ---- for one of the nine factory R3 Avantis, however, shimming the body up for R3 engine clearance on those cars (while retaining the high original Studebaker Avanti front wheel opening shape) gave those cars an awkward look compared to a 'normal' Stude Avanti....WAY too big a gap over the front tires.  (In my humble opinion)

Edited November 14, 2023 by mfg
added text

[Nelson]

I agree.

[8E45E]

On 11/2/2023 at 9:03 AM, mfg said:

One thing that has thankfully faded into history is the strained relationship between Studebaker Avanti owners, and owners of other Studebaker models, that existed in the late 'sixties' and well into the 'seventies'.

I recall, as a young fellow at the time, Studebaker owners who did not consider the Avanti to be a 'real' Studebaker...and conversely Avanti owners who, (with Studebaker auto production kaput), didn't want to admit their beautiful Avanti even WAS a Studebaker product !!

I remember a few local Avanti owners prying the Studebaker nameplate off the deck lid of their cars, filling the holes in or replacing the Stude nameplate with an 'Avanti' script. (the same script as on the front nose panel)

I'm glad to see that today all of that silly animosity is a thing of the past..however, the mentality I've described once definitely existed!...Ed

That may have been the case for a few Avanti owners, but not all. 

There was an SDC member here years ago who purchased a 1964 Avanti when it was only two or three years old at the time.  All the 'Studebaker' emblems and nameplates had been removed from the car, which he subsequently replaced.  

It is a well-equipped Avanti.

Craig

[aardvark]

I'm a fan of ALL model Avanti's and wether modified or not, they all have a place in my world.

I have a 63 R2 everything original ... My friend has a Av 2 I think it's an 80's model, another acquaintance has a 63 with a 600hp LS based engine, a Tremec 5 speed and a Mustang 2 front suspension. He's out to hit 200mph on the Salt Flats.

I personally would like to find a Avanti in poor shape and re-do it into a resto mod like the 3rd individual, and want it as a daily driver. I'm concerned my Original car may not be suitable for that purpose.

So Modify On! Bro's! 

[mfg]

9 hours ago, 8E45E said:

That may have been the case for a few Avanti owners, but not all. 

There was an SDC member here years ago who purchased a 1964 Avanti when it was only two or three years old at the time.  All the 'Studebaker' emblems and nameplates had been removed from the car, which he subsequently replaced.  

It is a well-equipped Avanti.

Craig

I would have also " re established" the Studebaker scripting...but the fact that the prior owner of the '64 'pulled' all those emblems is a good example how some folks felt about these things in the later sixties- seventies....Ed

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