Need Help Identifying This Block

[Tim G]

Hi Folks,

When I found my Avanti a couple of years ago I also ended up with this block and need help identifying and valuing it.  It appears to never have been assembled and is well preserved.  The return address on the shipping label is South Bend so I assume it is NOS or remanufactured but not really sure.  I do not have a use for it and would like to find it a new home so it doesn't go do waste.  It is block and pistons only, not crank, rods, etc.  If anyone can provide information I'd really appreciate it!

Edited May 15, 2021 by Tim G

[Dwight FitzSimons]

There is a casting date code at the very back, near the distributor, that reads: "10  1  R".  That translates to October 1, 1962.  So, it is an early 1963 block.  That would make it a full flow block, a good thing.  Being just a bare block (& pistons) it could be used to build a 259, 289, R1, or R2.  That is, there is no difference in the bare block (and bore) among these engines.

Another question is what pistons are they?  259s and 289's use different pistons and are not interchangeable.  They are flat top, which could indicate that they are R1/R2.

As to value, I don't know, but it is desirable and rare these days.

-Dwight

Edited May 15, 2021 by Dwight FitzSimons

[mfg]

Yep, that's a 'goodie' all right!....If you get no takers for that NOS block with fitted pistons, why not give Dave Thibeault a call?.....I don't think Dave frequents this forum very often so he probably wont see this....however, he's one of the larger Avanti parts vendors, and would no doubt be interested!    Tel# 978-897-3158

PS.....I'd guess it's a 259CI.

Edited May 16, 2021 by mfg

[Tim G]

Thanks for the info guys.  I have someone locally offering $250.  That's fair, right?  Shipping does not seem cost effective and like I said I just want to see this get used instead of sitting around.

[64studeavanti]

IMHO, it is easily worth twice the offer. After all, just a new set of pistons and rings cost more than that.

[64studeavanti]

Where are you located?

[Dwight FitzSimons]

I would second 64studeavanti's assessment of the block's value.  But, as you know, shipping is a big issue.

-Dwight

[Avanti83]

21 hours ago, Tim G said:

Thanks for the info guys.  I have someone locally offering $250.  That's fair, right?  Shipping does not seem cost effective and like I said I just want to see this get used instead of sitting around.

I have no idea about the value but it's currently worth $250 as that's the offer. Bottom line is you can move it on or wait for a better offer which my allow you keep stumbling over it for the next 10 years or more.

[Tim G]

5 minutes ago, Avanti83 said:

I have no idea about the value but it's currently worth $250 as that's the offer. Bottom line is you can move it on or wait for a better offer which my allow you keep stumbling over it for the next 10 years or more.

It's in storage at my dad's house so nobody is stumbling over it:)

I was just looking for general advice on the value.  I'm not greedy, but didn't want to be taken advantage of in the absence of knowledge on the topic.  I do understand your point but there are several folks interested and I don't like saying "what'll you give me for it?".  I was thinking $300-$500 (picking numbers out of thin air) so $250 is close but wanted to double-check.

Thanks for the help everyone!

[Tim G]

11 hours ago, 64studeavanti said:

Where are you located?

I'm just outside St Paul, MN

[Tim G]

11 hours ago, 64studeavanti said:

IMHO, it is easily worth twice the offer. After all, just a new set of pistons and rings cost more than that.

Thanks for the input!

[PackardV8]

On 5/18/2021 at 4:48 AM, 64studeavanti said:

IMHO, it is easily worth twice the offer. After all, just a new set of pistons and rings cost more than that.

Yes, No, Maybe. How it's been stored and in the humidity of MN, makes estimating worth a real crapshoot.  Pulling a number out of the etheric without an examination assumes too much.

 

FWIW,  I was given a similar NOS Packard 320" fitted block and pistons which was from CA and was still usable as was.  A customer sent us a fitted Champion block which had been stored in Alabama and nothing in it was usable.  The rings had rusted to the cylinders and corroded into the pistons.  The block had to be bored .060" over to clean up the rust pits.

Suggestion; wipe down a cylinder with an oily rag, knock one piston out and show the prospective purchaser the condition of the cylinder, rings and pistons.

jack vines

[Rick Stauffer]

I have a 1963 supercharged Avanti with what a believe to be a replacement engine.  It has the same stamped numbers as the block that Tim G is writing about (see photo attached to this post).   Is it possible to confirm that this is a Studebaker block?  The 3.6" bore on Tim G.'s block conforms to what I read for specifications of the original 289 R-2 engine.  

Were the originally installed engines stamped with unique serial number?  If so, where would I locate it?

If indeed mine is a replacement, would it have a unique serial number and if so where?

.

[studegary]

29 minutes ago, Rick Stauffer said:

I have a 1963 supercharged Avanti with what a believe to be a replacement engine.  It has the same stamped numbers as the block that Tim G is writing about (see photo attached to this post).   Is it possible to confirm that this is a Studebaker block?  The 3.6" bore on Tim G.'s block conforms to what I read for specifications of the original 289 R-2 engine.  

Were the originally installed engines stamped with unique serial number?  If so, where would I locate it?

If indeed mine is a replacement, would it have a unique serial number and if so where?

.

You are showing a cast in number.  The engine Serial Number is stamped into the block (top, left, front).  For the 1963 model year, engine numbers were unique to that particular engine.  For the 1964 model year, all engines, of a type, that were made on the same day have the same Engine Number.  Provide your stamped Engine Number and we can tell you more.  

[Rick Stauffer]

Thanks for the response, I was unable to see an engine number on the top of the block left front (see attached photos).  Any thoughts on where else to look?

Much obliged, Rick

[studegary]

It looks like a replacement block that was not stamped at installation, as it should have been.

[Skip Lackie]

Agree with Gary.  The problem you have is that it could be either a 259 or a 289, and could also be a standard engine or an R1.  The factory assumed that the buyer would know what he ordered, and did not include any stampings on replacement engines to indicate what was inside.  The only way to know for sure would be to measure the stroke and/or look at the piston tops.

[Rick Stauffer]

Thanks for the responses above. 

From those, I assume the cast in number at the right corner of the block isn't helpful. 

Given that this mystery motor is married with the supercharger and a 4-speed and that the car was at one time used for racing, is there any chance that it could be an R-3?

Needless to say, I appreciate your thoughts.

[64studeavanti]

R3 would have reliefs cut into the block for the valves.

[Rick Stauffer]

Would that be visible without removing the cylinder heads?

[64studeavanti]

If it is R3, the casting number on the large port heads is 1555479.

[Rick Stauffer]

Again thanks for the information and your patience in this dialog.  Best I can see is a casting number 1557582 (see attached)--would that suggest a 289 block?

[64studeavanti]

The 582 heads were used on R2 engines as well as some trucks. 

[Rick Stauffer]

I really appreciate your responses.  Very helpful.  R