Avanti83
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Posts posted by Avanti83
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I was wondering what needs to be done to the chevy, caprice or Monte carlo chassis to use it under my 78 Avanti ll. I am thinking of doing the car over or selling it and one of my bigest gripes is the lark front steering and the way they destroyed the engine pipe to stop it from hitting the pitman arm. The Chevy chassis appears to have a lot of advantages over the Stude?
A lot of work for little gain. However, if you really want a newer, better chassis go with a Morrision or other chassis builders that are designed for a Stude. Morrision build a Stude chassis as do others, so as long as you are going to try to improve the chassis, get one that is designed to be better. They'll fix you up with C5 or newer 'vette components or better. Not cheap, but unless you can fabricate and have the facilities to do it, the Chevy won't be cheap either.
Secondly, a 2 1/2" exhaust can be installed and while the appearance is still goofy, you'll need a lot of engine to develop a serious restriction. Ask the man that owns one.
While the 80's suspension is a modest upgrade, my 83 with all new components and KGB shocks is a very road-able setup. I'll let you know when the 74 stroker hits the road as it is all new underneath with Delrin control arm bushings and urethane sway bar bushings.
Personally, the only way I would consider doing what you are considering is to bite the bullet and spend the money to get a setup that will really make a difference. The chebby is a stopgap solution at best and IMHO, a waste of time and money.
But as Bruce says, it would be much easier to sell yours and buy a later model. But drive one or an 80's Monte Carlo first, it might make you keep yours.
JMO, Bob
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That makes it much easier.
Consider using the 93-97 GM OEM complete clutch hydraulic assembly that comes complete with fluid installed. I believe I purchased mine at partsgeeks for $108. Ratio to travel is important here.
In any case, you'll need to connect and mount the main cylinder. As you know the clutch is actuated by pulling even though the cylinder pushes.
It should be possible to do it with a mechanical linkage but it would be a lot of fabrication also.
Avanti generally used parts that were issued by another MFG so Myers or Nostalgic may have them or know their source as you have said they don't look 63/64. I have found looking on Ebay for parts will generally bring up what I need by looking at the pictures, if the other sources don't pan out.
This is a shot of the 74 assembly for your comparison. Both brake and clutch pivot on the same pin that is welded to the clutch and is then pushed through the bracket and brake pedal to complete the assembly. If your 84 is similiar then it might be as simple as making up or finding the clutch pedal and replacing the pivot pin with the clutch pedal. I used a bracket bolted to the clutch pedal to mount the rod to the clutch master cylinder.
Bob
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The clutch petals are one issue but you will also need to know what T-56 you will be using as you can use an LT-1 or LS-1 sourced T-56 and the fact that you have a two piece rear seal and the T-56's are all for one-piece rear seal crankshafts. They are a different bolt pattern on the crankshaft so you will need to mix/match some parts. They are all widely available but you need the correct ones for it to work and fit. You will also need to go hydraulic on the clutch pedal.
Google T-56 to F-body conversion and be prepared to do some reading. What you learn will make you a smarter buyer.
If it's been done to your year/engine before then buying the parts can be the best solution but I'd still recommend you read up on the topic before you spend money.
My 74 has a 383 SBC two-piece seal crankshaft engine mounted to a 1996 LT-1 F-body T-56. Luckily it started as a 4-speed car so I had the pedals but it's now hydraulically actuated. The LT-1 setup requires a special flywheel to fit the two-piece crank bolt pattern but then everything bolts up. I also had to fab a new cross-member and clutch cylinder mounting set up. I don't know about your drive shaft but with the 700R4 it may be the correct length.
The LS-1 T-56 is a different animal but it will bolt up but not without a lot of knowledge.
If you want pictures go to the SDC forum and search sweetolbob and look for the T-56 topics I started. That will show you what is involved.
Bob
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As an update, this is the post from the SDC on the fabrication and mounting of the electric fan and shroud.
Bob
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I used a generic 19" X 26" Aluminum radiator in my 83 and have another one just installed in my 74. I always run my engines hot (195 deg, Carnot Knows ) but last year going to the Zone meet it was 95 deg and about as humid and it held 190-195 no problem. It will idle at cruises as well as I've never had it go over 195 deg.
The one in the 74 is from Speedway and I purchased it on special for $89, it's normally $129 IIRC and I have the local sheet metal shop bend up a set of bracket (top and bottom) out of 16 ga. Aluminum and TIG them to the radiator. $80.
This what it looks like before I build the shroud for the electric fan that will go on the radiator
If originality is not an issue here's an option, Bob
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Agree with Bruce on Magnaflows. My 83 has a Simmons 2 1/4" SS exhaust with a pair of Magnaflow 11215 oval glasspacks on it.
This is what they sound like up close, 355 SBC roller cam, alum heads, Holley EFI driven by a 70 YO that never grew up.
Bob
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My question is: The tube ( marked overflow) that acts as a vent in a 1963 Avanti (and is short), is it longer (?) in a 1982 Avanti, and goes near the bottom of the tank for the EPA for a sealed tank system for emissions? Is that why it can't vent properly?
I should have been less wordy on the SDC forum, Yes, is the answer, you are correct in your observation about the return line going near the bottom in the 82 tank.
Bob
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Most of the ones from this era are a bayonet base that fits into a socket. The socket is usually removed by turning it about a quarter turn and pulling to remove it.
Follow the wires with your hand until you reach the socket.
Bob
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Recently have received a stainless exhaust system from Don Simmons - very high quality pipes, is it recommended to slot the pipes ends or use some sort of exhaust sealer for a tight fit?
I didn't do either and no leaks on his system in my 83.
This is my post on the SDC forum about the install. http://forum.studeba...ess-(Silvertone)-Exhaust-Installation-Length-and-picture-warning
Bob
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Studebaker International has a complete kit including rebuilt king pins if necessary. I believe it is about $900 with the discount for purchasing the complete set. The other issue is the $500 core charge if you don't send in your king pins in exchange. I think SI is about as cheap?? as you will find them but Myers and Nostalgic Motors should have them also.
Bob
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It continues to boil down to rim width and back spacing, Tom, SBCA96, put 17" Mustang wheels on his Avanti and I have a set of pre-2005 17" Bullit Mustang wheels set to go on my 74.
Here's a post with Tom's observations, http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?50074-Mustang-Wheels-on-Avanti
Bob
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I've a set of four KYB gas Shocks on my 83. They were added when I rebuilt the front suspension. Nice and stable on the road. I can recommend them.
Bob
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From the SDC website. http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?54691-Replacement-for-Steeltech-12-quot-Rotors&highlight=steeltech
This should get you where you want to go. I'm sweetolbob there so I have your setup on my 83 Avanti.
Bob
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Your 89 takes a 1DIN chassis. That is the most popular after market unit available. Just go to Crutchfield.com and look for what you want. You can also do it locally at Best Buy or any store that handles after market radios.
Bob
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Can't send any pictures but if you go to newstalgia.com and lookup the wheel visualizer http://www.newstalgiawheel.com/wheel_visualizer.asp you can go to model and under Studebaker you will find Avanti 63/64. Not yours but close enough to try all the wheel and tire size combinations they sell.
Size is, of course, not the issue but width and back spacing. My 83 has 8" wide rims with 4.5" rear and 3.5" front back spacing.
For my 74 I have a set of pre-2005 Mustang Bullit wheels with P225 45X17 tires and 8" rim width. About 4 3/4" BS that fits fine on the rear but will need slight spacing on the front. I'm going to use a 1" spacer there.
Have fun mucking around in the wheel visualizer.
Bob
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Sage advice from Bruce as Dan is the go-to guy for Avanti and II's. He will also take the time to discuss your questions over the phone.
I'll also post this from Bob Johnstone's Site. Root around in the diagrams as I'll bet you'll find quite a few clues to what you'll need. I doubt that Avanti changed much of the standard stuff, headlights, horns etc so those should be straight forward. http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/Diagrams/aec/aec.html
I will also suggest that you go to the library and look over the 1970 - 71 Chevrolet manuals as the HEI system is GM sourced.
Lastly, the HEI is easy to wire, just a 12V high amp connection that switches on in start and run mode and a connection to the tach. Any other wires are part of the distributor and a ported vacuum connection to the carb.
Good luck, Bob
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I used one of those pry tools they sell to remove the door cards. If you are careful, you can get it off without damaging it.
Remember that the clips that hold the trim are captured by the lips on the back of the chrome. If you pry them off, something has to yield to release them.
They may be OK if pried off but the odds are way to small for me to try that method. JMHO
Bob
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I'm gathering the parts needed to swap out my TH 400 to a 700 R4. Along the line I ordered a new steel fuel line from Corvette Central. When the part came they included a catalog so I scanned through it and noticed the shift lever and knob for the 68-82 automatic looked exactly the same as the one in my 1980. Corvette Central sells a 68-81 automatic w/overdrive shifter conversion kit for $109.00. Does anyone know if the shifter assembly for Avanti is actually a Corvette assembly? I am loath to spend $750.00 for shifter parts from Dan, I know they will fit and work but if there is a cheaper way to do this then I'd be a fool not to.
I have a used shifter from a 4-speed auto Avanti that I purchased a few years back for a separate project. It needs a new plastic shift indicator plate as there is some crazing in the existing one and it will need the rod from the shifter to the trans. I have about $100 in it so that plus shipping is what I want for it.
If you are interested, I can take a few more pictures so you can see what I have.
Bob
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Just off the top, FAST, Holley and Projection III for starters.
If you are truly interested in using one on an R2 or other supercharged application, put together a list of questions on what you want to achieve and call each companies tech service.
You'll get too many opinions from we folks. Bruce likes Edelbrock, as he should, I'm a Holley fan because I use theirs and love there tech service. Others think FAST is "the nuts" and the Racing Stude guys favor the Projection stuff.
One other contact I'd suggest is Jeff Rice DEEPNHOCK. As you know he is building a Stude drag car and has probably asked more suppliers more questions than any of use. He chose Projection III for his use.
If yours was mine, I'd use the Holley Avenger with a crank trigger timing setup so I'd have spark controlled as well as AFR. you could then use a knock sensor for safety as well as AFR.
But the best bet is to do your research and talk to the guys that know in the industry.
0.02 worth, Bob
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I personally like the '63/4 openings. If you decide to take on this project, I would definitely add a 3/4' lip to the opening. If not I would think that you would open yourself up to cracking of the glass around the wheel well, Good luck, Like my Dad used to say "you never make mistakes if you sit on your ++s!.
If you plan to do something like this either Photoshop the openings or print out several large pictures of the car and cut them up to see what the final appearance will be. You will be changing proportions of the fender to the opening size when you do this so it will look different than either parent.
Several pictures are much less expensive than not liking what you have after the mods.
The mods shouldn't be to difficult if you have some experience with fiberglass. You just keep glueing, filling and sanding till it's done.
Bob
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My 1983 had an owner/mechanic 305-to 700R4 conversion 10 years ago. Seems to work fine after 10K miles. When done the owner did not do whatever was needed to make the speedometer work. Car just sold and I would like to advise the new owner how to make the speedo work. Is a modification (kit) available?
What does the speedo drive look like on the tranny. Early 700R4's had a speedo drive that took a cable and drive gear just like the older TH400's and TH350's. Later 700R4 and the 4L60 derivative had an electric sender powered by a driven gear that can be adapted by using the older 700R4 housing and gear.
If it's the 4L60E that is computer controlled then it's difficult but I doubt that you have that. What's in the speedo drive hole will tell you what it will take to make it work.
If you decide that's a lot of work, Speedhut makes a GPS Speedo that needs no tranny connection and can be ordered to look much like the original speedometer.
Bob
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Skip,
I get it. Question remains whether one might notice a performance difference with and w/o a cat.
Related question...is there a quick visual clue to whether my 1989 Avanti (with Caprice frame and engine) is a 305, or 350 Police Special?
I don't recall the years but look at the top of the block on the left rear of the engine just behind the heads. They had a 5.0 or 5.7 cast into them.
Bob
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I can answer some of your questions. I have a 700R4 swapped in my '70 in place of the Borg Warner PowerShift.
You should be able to do it without pulling the engine. The transmission support may need to be relocated. The floor shifter housing needs to be replaced with one from an Avanti with an overdrive automatic as while they look almost identical...they're not. The shifter indicator in your car is held down by two screws. The indicator in an overdrive car is held down by one screw and a tongue and groove type hold down, so a different quadrant is required. The shifter itself will work, but won't line up properly with the letters and numbers on the dial. To make it line up correctly you should obtain a shifter from a later car.
You might need a different driveshaft or have yours modified. I can't say for sure on that when swapping from one GM tranny to another. Mine required a different driveshaft when changing from the BW to GM. I went with an aluminum driveshaft to reduce rotating mass since I had to change units anyway.
Some will say a 700R4 might require transmission tunnel modifications...mine didn't. That may be a car by car thing. What my car did need was a different neutral safety switch and backup light switch setup fabricated. Whether that was mandatory due to the 700R4 size or because I went to a 2 1/2" diameter exhaust system in place of the original 2" pipes I can't say...but the proximity of the exhaust made it necessary.
Some say the 200R4 is a better choice as it has a better spread of gears. The speed shop that installed mine only deals in 700R4's as they're stronger...not that a 200R4 can't be built to take lots of torque. I will say the low gear on the 700 is quite low and shifts almost immediately into second. It will smoke the tires in any gear if I try and it did take some time getting used to it.
Bruce did an excellent job of overviewing the swap.
I'll add a couple of thoughts as my 83 came with a 700R4 and I replaced it with a 200R4. The 700 fit without any mods as the 83 came with it. One problem is the 200R4's are somewhat harder to find as fewer were built. They also went into midsize cars so some had lower torque ratings but they were standard behind the Buick Turbo V-6's so they'll hold up generally ok. Mine came from a mid-80's 442 and was rebuilt to stage 2 specs. So it's capable of handling the 400 or so horses from my 355 SBC. That rebuild was about $1300 as a benchmark.
Here's a list of auto tranny lengths so you can compare your T400 with the others. http://www.angelfire...428/tranny.html
Let me now say that your shaft might work with a 200 but it's to long for 700, so you are balancing rebuild cost against tranny cost.
If you are in the lowest reasonable cost mode, I look around for a 700 series that is in good shape, low mileage or recent rebuild. It would handle anything your engine could dish out as they were built for large cars and pickups. The drive shaft mod is about $150 or so around here. Then you would only need to move/slightly modify the rear crossmember and be good to go.
If you want to go for broke and rebuild the trans, then either the 200 or 700 would work. The 700 has a lower first gear to get a heavy car rolling whereas the 200 is much more evenly spread. If you have a 3:07 or so rear end then the 700 is probably better. 3:40 or so and the 200 could be better. My 83 has a 4:10 behind the 200 and it a lot of fun off the line.
I'd also be sure to get a 700 or 4L60 variant not the 4L60E or later as the early ones have the ability to add a speedo drive. The E series is electronically controlled. You can use an "E" series with an electric aftermarket controller which is not inexpensive but works well. It would require an electronic speedo or GPS version.
Lastly, The 200 and early 700 variants use a TV cable attached to the carb linkage to control shifts. If improperly adjusted, it will toast a trans so be sure you or whoever hooks it up does it correctly.
Good Luck, Bob
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A quick No!! on the drop in but it is possible to replace yours with a 5/6 speed.
But it will take an adapter, hydraulic clutch setup, a change in driveshaft length and a modified rear cross member for starters.
If you want to proceed peruse this from the SDC forum http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?8204-Studebaker-Avanti-TKO-5-speed-install-how-to
Bob
Wheels and tires for Avanti II
in Avanti Information
Posted
My 74 still had the original Magnum 500's on it when I purchased it last year. 15 X 6 with 4" back spacing. FYI to add to your data base.
Bob