Avanti83
-
Posts
1,282 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by Avanti83
-
-
The car has had quite a history of modifications by looking at the 63 front end and the elimination of the side lights and door handles. There are also traces of different seats and other interior modifications. I still think that if I had one less Avanti I'd make the trip to Zion, IL and look it over. With no pictures of the underside it's impossible to determine the extent and quality of the installation.
It's at a point where there is little downside to making other modifications to bring it to "possibly" a great driver.
Bob
-
Have any of you used LED's for your brake lights? I know that it is not prototypical but my concern is increased visibility. The Avanti brake lights are very small to today's cars and I fear someone not noticing me when I am stopped or turning.
That's in advance.
I will be using LED's on my 74 but for the best effect I still think a third brake light on the rear shelf would be a major upgrade compared any lights that could be added to the OEM lights.
If you want it original for shows, wire it through the trunk with a quick disconnect and run the wire through the hatch with a removable mount.
Bob
-
How did you arrive at your size and backspacing? I'd like to put Magnum 500's on if possible, but they don't seem to be available with 3.5" backspacing for the front. It looks like 15x7's are 4.25 backspacing. I assume that 15x8 with 4.5 backspace wouldn't work in the front?
The tires were on the car and new when I purchased it so I liked the sizes and left them. The wheels were chosen by looks and trying one to see how they centered in the wheel housing. The only two back spacing options they had in those wheels was 3.5 and 4.5" That worked.
The 15X7 Magnums I think will work. My 83 has the Steeltec Disc Brake option and they along with Turner (which I have for the 74) seem to set the wheels just slightly closer to the tie rod end. IIWY I'd just get a wheel and bolt it on. I think you will be pleasantly suprised. I'm adding a 1" spacer to the Mustang wheels on the front as it is the thinnest true spacer I can find. I really only need 1/4" or so but that's the best I can find. That's why I think the 15X7's will fit your car.
Bob
-
Don't sell the70's II's short. I had my 76's 400 rebuilt and de-smogged along with having a rebuilt 200-R4 put in and it way more get up and go than I need. I recently had the suspension rebuilt and had the "cattle-catcher" bumper removed. It has that classic older Avanti front end look and a modest rake. It now drives like a dream with the redone springs and suspension.
PLW
If what you mean by de-smogged is a cam change along with removing the smog equipment then you have a crate motor essentially. All SBC's 1955-98 are essentially the same engine with cubic inch changes, I know, Vortec heads in the late 80's. However, in the mid-70's they were strangled by a lot of cam retard, low lift and compression and small valves. The 400 is the best choice of that era as it would still deliver reasonable torque.
I had a 39 Ford Coupe that I found a 1974 station wagon 305 SBC to install. They were DOGS but I pulled the OEM cam and replaced it with an RV grind Wieand, Along with a Wieand Al intake and 500 CFM Holley. The wagon motors had larger valves then. That little devil reminded me so much of our early SBC drag motor that would just rev in an eye blink. Just like the golden days of unrestricted SBC's. That's why I say it's not hard nor expensive to bring a smog motor to a reasonable performance level.
I love your car from previous posts and you made a wise choice to retain the 400. My 74 would be getting one if I hadn't found the 383 stroker I'm installing.
Bob
-
Don't sell the70's II's short. I had my 76's 400 rebuilt and de-smogged along with having a rebuilt 200-R4 put in and it way more get up and go than I need. I recently had the suspension rebuilt and had the "cattle-catcher" bumper removed. It has that classic older Avanti front end look and a modest rake. It now drives like a dream with the redone springs and suspension.
PLW
If what you mean by de-smogged is a cam change along with removing the smog equipment then you have a crate motor essentially. All SBC's 1955-98 are essentially the same engine with cubic inch changes, I know, Vortec heads in the late 80's. However, in the mid-70's they were strangled by a lot of cam retard, low lift and compression and small valves. The 400 is the best choice of that era as it would still deliver reasonable torque.
I had a 39 Ford Coupe that I found a 1974 station wagon 305 SBC to install. They were DOGS but I pulled the OEM cam and replaced it with an RV grind Wieand, Along with a Wieand Al intake and 500 CFM Holley. The wagon motors had larger valves then. That little devil reminded me so much of our early SBC drag motor that would just rev in an eye blink. Just like the golden days of unrestricted SBC's. That's why I say it's not hard nor expensive to bring a smog motor to a reasonable performance level.
I love your car from previous posts and you made a wise choice to retain the 400. My 74 would be getting one if I hadn't found the 383 stroker I'm installing.
Bob
-
Nice! I bet it scoots down the road. Might surprise a few unsuspecting "fast" cars?
What size wheels and tires do you have on that? It looks like they fill up the wheel wells nicely. One of my biggest complaints with these cars is the limited tire and wheel size, from what I've read.
I wouldn't want anything silly, but something to help the stance.
Warren
The rims are 15 X 8" with the rear tires P245X60R15 and the fronts P215X60R15's. Back spacing is 4.5 on the rear and 3.5 on the front. Everything fits fine and it handles quite well for a 50's suspension. There is a full 8" of tread on the ground on the rear. It's set about 1 1/2" to high in front but I'll make the lowering mods on the 74 as I will need to rebush the front suspension before it gets on the road.
The wheels on the 74 will be 99-04 Mustang Bullits 17 X 8 and they seem to fit except I'll need to space them out about an inch on the front as they are 4.5" back space.
Bob
-
Well put, Bob. I couldn't have stated it any better myself!
Did you use a crate motor or build one yourself?
Did you do anything to your 200R transmission to handle more power?
I've heard that they weren't all that strong when they fist debuted.
Warren
I got a great deal on a well built 355 off of Ebay. A fellow built it for a customer with a deposit but he didn't pay the remainder so he sold it for what he had in it minus the up front cash. Aluminum heads, roller cam etc.
I also bought the 2004R from him as that was his primary business. It has sufficient upgrades to handle 400+ HP which he claims the motor has. So far, so good as I've not been gentle on it. The shift points match the engine and 4:10 rear end quite well.
The 200 series has a smaller case than the 700 so it fits a little better but the 700 will fit.
The racing folks I talked to about the strength of each said not an issue as they have about the same strength with upgraded components. I paid $1400 for mine with 2000 stall converter.
Bob
-
What would be the acceleration or HP...and MPG difference between the standard 305 and, say, a crate 350 in a 1982 Avanti II? What other advantages?
My experience with SBC's from this era and earlier is that GM had not got the computer control to the point where there was a good combination of performance and mileage. They were still using retarded cam timing and other mods to meet emissions requirements at the cost mileage and performance. They were starting to get closer in this time frame and were better than the 70's but a few more years were necessary to develop the computer controls to provide performance and mileage.
That's my intro to saying a well tuned 350 crate with the correct carb for the application and a new appropriate cam should give better mileage and preformance than the 305.
In my case, I decided to go the extra step and add a Holley Avenger HP ECM setup that controls all functions based on a wide band O2 sensor or other factors of your choice. It teaches it self as you drive to optimize the engine parameters.
It's $1600 from the lowest cost suppliers but controls timing as well to optimize parameters.
My 74 383 SBC will be getting another one.
Bob
-
Posted by cobrajoe74
I like having an 80s era car that looks like a 64...drives more like a modern car
With a couple of small adjustments like removing the front clearance lights and the rear rubber over riders, the only thing that is different in my 83 is the front fender wedge.
Bob
-
I own an 83 and think that by this era Avanti's have about as good a build and parts quality as were installed in any era. They were priced in the $30K range and materials reflect it.
To find one in this condition for $10 K is (in my mind) a very good buy. I think that the 82's had an overdrive automatic tranny, but check and you will not need to spend $$$$ on any improvements.
That anemic 305 is just that but drive it first, it might be ok. But if it's not, $2K or so will buy you a decent crate engine and give you back the performance you will enjoy.
The secret will be your state emissions policy. The computer control in these cars is an almost seperate system that can be removed allowing the install of a carb/HEI system on a crate engine if your state doesn't have emissions checks.
My 83 had a similiar 305 but now sports a 355 SBC with all the goodies and a Holley Avenger EFI system.
I drove 740 miles each way to tow my 83 home and am glad I did. If it's as nice as they say, take a friend, significant other , etc and take a small vacation and drive it home.
I'm glad I did. There is no way you will start with a decent $7.5 K II and get to this one at $10K. You'll have more in it.
Food for thought, Bob
-
I don't believe any have been documented but there may have been some redone by owners. After so many years the only way to determine that is by examining build sheets. Any custom modifications would have been listed there.
Just to add to what Bruce said. Nostalgic Motors has a large inventory of Avanti II build sheets but not original Avanti. They had them for my 74 and 83.
Bob
-
I think a II in need of paint is a bit high at 11K. Here's a 72 that didn't make $9500 ($9250 high) on Ebay. Compare this one with the one you are looking at for comparison. http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item337c33c91a
Also, look over Craigslist with Searchtempest or other list bot to see what folks want. I think you are working on the high side. JMHO.
Bob
-
If you get it spot painted for a reasonable price, it might be worth purchasing, but go into it knowing that the odds are the delamination will continue eventually requiring that the car be totally repainted. That will require that the old paint be totally stripped and repainted. Not an inexpensive process.
The second issue is the delamination starting under the window rubber. Any decent shop will want to remove the glass to be sure the problem won't start again in that spot and I'll bet they find more delamination starting there.
The 74 I purchased came at a cheap price as the delamination had gotten to the point that every panel was affected and it was on it's second paint job. I took it all off to start the repaint.
This will give you an idea of what it can progress to.
I don't want to totally discourage you but it can get messy if you don't go into the purchase understanding the consequences.
Bob
-
I'll add a couple of thoughts to your process.
In my mind, the two most important areas to consider on an N&A Avanti are the hog troughs and the paint, assuming the frame is solid. The hog troughs are about $4000 to replace by a shop or about $1500 to purchase independently. They can be replaced with the body on the car if you can find the three piece type but require the body to be lifted or the rocker panels be cut off if you use the one piece units.
Now lets talk paint. Remember you are dealing with a fiberglass body, and if there are a lot of spider cracks the paint probably needs to be removed to the glass and repainted. I bring this up because I just finished scraping the paint off of my 74 with 150 razor blades and a minimum of 50 hours labor. Media blasting would be a better way for a commercial shop to go, however. The time I am now spending to prepare the body for paint is probably another 30 hours or so. I'll also have about $1500 in materials including paint to finish it myself.
I'm doing this to point out that repainting one of these is not a $2000 paint job unless you have a relative in the business. I'm going through this effort because my 74 is a true 4-speed car and I've wanted one for years.
If I haven't scared you by now, and I hope I haven't!!! Those early Avanti's have one of the sweetest SBC's put on the road and a 4-speed behind it just adds to the smiles/mile.
So if this car is the one you want, GO FOR IT!!!
If you want one with less work and a manual trans, then most any year would work by installing a 4/5 speed manual. Just be aware that the SBC's after about 72 or so are emissions victims. Poor performers!!!
Last thought. If I do another one. It will start with a great body and spent the few thousand dollars to buy an LS Chebby motor and 6-speed from a wrecking yard and just transplant it in the Avanti. They make adapters to put those on old SBC mounts and give the best performance/mileage combo in existance.
I've rambled enough but good luck. Be sure not to go through life without at least one Avanti.
Bob
-
You might want to contact Dan Booth at Nostalgic Motors to see if he might have an interest and/or suggestions on parts that could be sourced. If he wanted to stock some you might be able to get better pricing and possibly some free-bees for the effort.
Bob
-
Were the 4-speeds Borg Warner T10 or Muncie? Since the Studes used B-W trannies behind the McKinnons, did N-A also?
jack vines
Can't speak about 65 but they were installing T10's in 74.
Bob
-
Jack
http://www.avantipar...Steering/Detail at $175 is about as good as I know.
But first, I can't disagree with your diagnosis about wear but let's just noodle for a moment. On a right turn the ram is at full extension which I would think would be the spot least likely to wear or corrode as it is seldom exposed to the elements.
On my 74, which is/was a total rust bucket from Michigan, the chrome plated ram is uncorroded with no precipitable wear at 97,000 miles.
I don't have the ram diagram at hand but I have to think that there is a wiping seal at the end of the ram. Is it possible that the seal is cracked with age and at full extension the ram slightly distorts the seal causing the crack to open and leak like heck.
The only reason I'm going on this way is it appears no one had put the car in the air to see what is happening and a seal kit is $19.
As always, I recognize that you and a few others are much more knowledgeable about these cars than I am but just suggesting.
Bob
-
Not a good idea to drill holes into your housings, that will allow more condensation to form around those hot bulbs.
I replaced the tail lights with LED's years ago, no heat and work great. If you just replace your rear lights the flasher should work OK. For best light get LED's the same color as lens.
I also replaced my interior lights so that the lens wouldn't get discolored by the heat of the light bulb.
If you ever have touched the metal rings around the turn signal indicators on your dash after they had been on for awhile you will see how much heat is created. I replaced all of my dash lights with LED bulbs. No heat and more color, no more driving down the road with my turn signal on, the indicators are very noticable.
Jim
Did you use replacement bulbs or a complete tail light assembly?
In either case, what is the part # or description of what you used.
Thanks, Bob
-
Joe
Here is my post on the proper shocks and how to modify the rear ones from the STUDEBAKER FORUM. The monroe numbers are down a couple of posts.
Also note the link to Nate Nagle's info page in the post. He has the part #'s for most available brands of replacement shocks.
http://forum.studeba...ck-Modification
Bob
-
I spoke with Fennessey's at the IM and they said those were the only seals they could not supply. If you have not talked to Dan Booth at Nostalgic Motors in Wixom Michigan, I'd suggest you do. He should have any up to date info on availability. Talked to him at the IM and there wasn't much he didn't know about Avanti parts availability across the industry. Just forgot to ask about the 1/4 window seals.
Otherwise, I'm out of ideas.
Bob
-
Posted by Gunslinger
That's a tough decision to make...Avantis don't really have a lot of value in the market as they're considered more or less a cult type car. The end value of a restored car isn't there to make fixing them financially worthwhile in too many cases. That's sad...the Avanti has everything going for it...exclusivity, rarity, performance, striking appearance...everything but market value.
I think Bruce is right on. I purchased 1974 RQB-2123 in August 2011 for $3500 on Ebay. Hog troughs were toast and it needs paint bad. That was all it would draw in bids and it is the second to last four speed manufactured.
Let's take the $4000 number for HT's and add $6000 minimum for paint although probably more and you have a $10000 bill for starters. Add to that any interior work necessary and the initial cost $3500 for mine and you have the cost of a very nice original or restored car without all the trouble.
Now you know why I do all my own body and mechanical work.
It's a shame because they are great cars to drive and have the best of both worlds with Studebaker style/body and SBC drive trains but "What is --- is.
Good luck with yours, Bob
-
My car came with the wire wheels and adaptors which were in the trunk. There were a set of fake wire wheels on the car. I don't like either and have always been partial to the Magnum 500s. I was contemplating the 17" but want to run whitewall tires and there are none that I can find for 17" tires. My question is What is the backspacing for the wheels and width. No one lists the Avanti application although I know its the same as FORD, AMC Chrysler and some others. I have the Turner conversion on the front. I have removed the coil spacer in the front so the front is slightly lower than stock for the 1976 year.
On my 83, I'm running 15 X 8" Aluminum Rims with 3.5" BS on the front and 4.5" BS on the rear with excellent clearance with steelteck brakes on the front. On my 74 Avanti, I currently have the OEM Dunlop setup and will be running 17 X 8" Bullitt wheels from an early 2000 or so Mustang. They are about 4.25" BS on the rear and fit great but on the front they fit with about 1/4" clearance. A bit tight for my taste. I have a Turner setup ready to go on but my calculations show I will give up about 1/8" or so of clearance and bring the wheels almost to the tie rod. What I will do is run a 1" billet Aluminum spacer to set the wheels correctly in the wheel wells and clear all the suspension parts.
The 74 currently has 15 X 6" Magnum wheels that fit fine from the factory but my driving style needs more rubber and 8" wheels. I will get you the BS on my OEM Magnum wheels if you need them.
Bob
-
Does anyone know what type/size spare tire the 1983 Avanti was originally equipped with? A contemporary roadtest says they came from the factory with P205/75R-15 tires on the road wheels but my spare tire (mounted on a Magnum 500 wheel) is this size and fits so tightely in the well that you need a couple of tire irons to pry it out. Additionally, when in the well, tire spare tire assembly sticks up a couple of inches higher than the floor of the trunk which makes mounting the tire well cover moot. Did the car originally come with a space saver spare or were they shipped from the factory with this ill fitting spare tire?
When I purchased my 83 a few years back, it came with a high pressure cylinder of air. I assumed that it was for a inflatable spare originally but it may be possible that Avanti just supplied the spare mounted on the Magnum wheels with the same type of cylinder and left it underpressured to fit.
Just a thought, Bob
-
New to forums so please be patient with me. We are looking for a 1982 - 1984 Avanti, must be black, any color interior, fully loaded, pristine condition. Any leads please contact dogdays@socal.rr.com
Quite a difference from 82 to 84 as the bumpers and front and rear panels have some change. Curious why those years other than the 4-speed overdrive trannys.
In any case, I don't know of any as not a ton of black were built but don't forget Ebay and be sure to search Craigslist nationwide with Searchtempest or some other searcher.
Good luck, Love my 83.
Bob
What is my differential DANA 44 ??
in 1965-83 Avanti
Posted
Joe
I believe the early 44's had that # cast into the housing but the later ones like my 74 and 83 do not. Bruce is correct that a quick search of the net will give you photo ID. The Dana diff covers are unique enough to give a quick ID.
The rebuild bearing and seal kit I used was from a Scout II with Dana 44. If I can help when you decide to rebuild just post here. FYI, Dana has their complete rebuild manual on line so finding the methodology is quite straight forward.
Bob