Hot engine will not start....

[TMA62]

I have a 1971 with a Chevy 350. The car has had an off-frame restoration including rebuilding the engine and transmission.

The car will start fine when cold and after driving a short distance (less than an hour). However, after driving long distances on freeway driving (more than 1 hour), the starter will now work at all. I have checked the battery wires and connections; it is all tight and secure. My attention is turning to the starter and the proximity to the exhaust header. The single pipe header is approximately 3 inches away from the starter solenoid. It is possible that the solenoid is getting very hot from the header.

Have any of you experienced this type of problem? Have you considered different starters or a heat shield that can be wrapped around the starter? I am thinking of getting one to try it before into getting another starter.

Experiences, thoughts, advice?

Thanks in advance!

[Gunslinger]

I had a similar problem with my '70. It turned out not to be the starter or solenoid but a valve cover gasket was leaking depositing oil on the starter creating the problem. Replacing that gasket fixed the issue but I also installed a thermal blanket over the starter as well.

[Avanti83]

I always use a mini starter on my SBC's and also wrap the exhaust pipe in the engine compartment with DEI thermal wrap to reduce underhood heat. Remember that the SBC is now an old engine and,I'll bet that, most/all of the available starters available from your FLAPS are rebuilt. Rebuilds are not a bad thing but for what a rebuilt SBC starter costs, I'd question the quality of most inexpensive rebuilds.

You can find a mini starter and the wrap for well under $100.

[rev ken]

I have a similar problem with my 1980 Avanti ii. On my car the problem is the voltage in the s terminal wire to the starter solenoid is only 7 1/2 volts. If I jump the wire to 12 volts the starter will always work. I am presently tracing wiring trying to find where I have voltage drop. There is an old chevy trick to fix this using a ford (yea, i know) solenoid to send 12 volts to the s terminal on the gm starter. The wiring diagram can be found online.

[Mike Sal]

My '70 has a small metal heat shield between the starter & exhaust pipe & it appears to be stock, but would have to look at it again to be sure. Sounds like the starter is heat soaking. Does the solenoid "click" when you turn the key or is there complete silence? If it's not a ground problem (you said the car was freshly restored....meaning there could be paint interfering with a proper ground), a new starter (or solenoid...depending on your answer above) will probably fix it.

Mike Sal

[TMA62]

Mike, there is no sound at all. The instrument dials such as the ammeter and fuel gauge will drop when you turn the key. The starter will easily start after placing jumping cables on it.

Where should I look for grounding? At the starter or between the frame and the engine?

[Mike Sal]

Not sure if you've messed with chevy starters before, but the solenoid is essentially an electromagnet. When you turn the key to start, voltage is fed thru to the small wire attached to the solenoid to energize the magnet. The metal plunger is drawn towards the center of the magnet, which does two things at the same time....it pulls a linkage that shoves the starter drive into the flywheel.....and....pushes a brass washer into the 2 main motor contacts which spins the electric motor.

If there is no "click" when you turn the key, it means the solenoid isn't energizing. When you say you can hook up jumper cables to get it to start, do you mean hooking the cables to the battery (meaning you've increased the available amperage)? If there was a thick coat of paint on the block before the starter was bolted on, it's possible a marginal ground is the culprit.

I am still leaning on a bad solenoid as the problem (the fluctuating ammeter says there is some amount of current draw....shorted windings maybe). If there had been a click but no motor spinning, it might have been the windings in the motor.

Lots o luck

Mike S

[silverstude]

I've just read about complaints like this maybe three times in the past three weeks.., both here and on the SDC forum.

What you need to do is get a Ford style relay (...like the Stude Avanti...) and mount it away from the excessive heat, perhaps on the upper inner fender. Run your ignition with wires to it and the starter cables from the battery to the (Ford) relay, then to the upper bolt on the GM Starter.

You'll never have an issue again...

[Jim78]

Mike, there is no sound at all. The instrument dials such as the ammeter and fuel gauge will drop when you turn the key. The starter will easily start after placing jumping cables on it.

Where should I look for grounding? At the starter or between the frame and the engine?

Where are you putting the jumper cables that allow it to start?

If putting a cable from the frame of the starter to the negative battery post helps, you probably have a bad ground cable to the engine block. If a cable from positive to the solenoid lug (with the existing cable) helps, the positive cable is bad. If you are bypassing the solenoid and going directly to the starter, the solenoid is bad.

[TMA62]

Mike and Jim,

I place the jumper cables on the battery posts.

This is an Autozone Duralast starter. I will be taking my car over to AZ to check if the starter solenoid is bad. The starter is now 3 years old so the prolonged exposure to heat may have damaged the solenoid. If so, I will replace the starter.

While I am at it, I plan on wrapping the exhaust header with heat shield tape and get the shield for the starter. Any recommendations on the best heat shield tape to use?

[wopony12]

This is called a Chevrolet hot start problem. Go to section that has 87's. I have posted what I have done to solve the hot start problem.

[fred88]

Chevy hot start problems are very common. Google Ford solenoid, there are several drawings showing how to wire a Ford generic solenoid mounted on your fender apron, to the GM starter to cure it--cheap $20.00 plus an extra battery cable, a 2" piece of 10 gauge wire as a shunt and two wires taken off the GM starter and run instead to the Ford solenoid. Problem solved.

[IndyJimW]

I have a similar problem with my 1980 Avanti ii. On my car the problem is the voltage in the s terminal wire to the starter solenoid is only 7 1/2 volts. If I jump the wire to 12 volts the starter will always work. I am presently tracing wiring trying to find where I have voltage drop. There is an old chevy trick to fix this using a ford (yea, i know) solenoid to send 12 volts to the s terminal on the gm starter. The wiring diagram can be found online.

Check the connector at the base of the steering column the terminals will lose contact, overheat and melt the plastic.

Jim Wood

[Mel]

As SilverStude said, you probably need a Ford style solenoid. Chevy starters of that era were known for having weak solenoids. Jon Meyer told me that GM had actually sent out a field notice around that time regarding the problem and weaker internal springs as a fix.

Fred88 below noted the parts you need. In issue 174, pg. 7 of AOAI magazine, I noted that Summit Racing sells a kit for this problem for $19.97, Summit p/n SUM-G1750. The kit includes the solenoid and a bit of hardware but you'll also need a jumper to run from the new solenoid to the starter. I bought this jumper at Advance Auto for around $5.00 (This jumper is about 6-8 inches long and is probably #4 wire with a terminal on each end which is essentially a flattened piece of metal with a 5/16" (or so) hole drilled in it to allow it to slip on the starter and solenoid terminals. Hope this is clear.) I was always apprehensive about whether the car would start, particularly when it was hot, but I put this kit on and have not had a bit of trouble with it.