1983 RBQ-3616 Dropping Frame???

[SCPO-PD]

I just purchased my 1983 and I am really thinking hard about where to start my rebuild/rework effort.  I am seriously considering the dropping of the frame and starting there.  I have found a few thoughts & ideas on how to do this online but the details are rather limited.  Anyplace where I can get the details ???

[mfg]

3 hours ago, SCPO-PD said:

I just purchased my 1983 and I am really thinking hard about where to start my rebuild/rework effort.  I am seriously considering the dropping of the frame and starting there.  I have found a few thoughts & ideas on how to do this online but the details are rather limited.  Anyplace where I can get the details ???

Big job...lots of wrench turning...and an oxy-acetlyne setup will come in very handy!

[Zedman]

Hi SCPO-PD. I am well advanced into the re-framing of RQB3269 and feel I can probably guide you if you wish to remove the Chassis from the Body.  If your Frame is badly rusted out, I would start looking for a good donor Chassis from a Studebaker Daytona/ Wagonaire or short wheel base (109" wheelbase)  chassis that you can cut the X frame out of and weld it back into the siderails, albeit more work.  The latter method probably provides a more plentiful resource, however. 

It is not as daunting a task as what you may think, but you will need space to store the body, new Chassis and old chassis. The body will not need to be lifted off the chassis as high if you remove the engine and transmission early in the piece and remove road wheels and suspension parts onto the ground (creative thinking needed sometimes- i.e. lower the frame and support the body). Once you have the body off and away you can support it on 20 gallon drums and tackle rusty Torque boxes with comparitive ease. Rather than bore the bejesuz out of everybody on this forum with my rantings, please feel welcome to contact me privately and I can offer my own experience. I'd like to commend you in advance for what I suspect is the 'saving' of a limited resource ! 👌 Just what is your Avanti like?

Edited March 3, 2023 by Zedman

[wildfelr]

RQB3263/81/305 ...... KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK DOWN THERE..... Many have done you exact project and several have detailed there experience here.... As for the rants keep them coming ...its kinda like being married again .....BILL IN FLORIDA

 

[Zedman]

11 hours ago, wildfelr said:

RQB3263/81/305 ...... KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK DOWN THERE..... Many have done you exact project and several have detailed there experience here.... As for the rants keep them coming ...its kinda like being married again .....BILL IN FLORIDA

 

Thanks Bill- I appreciate that 👍 .. here's a photo from Dec 2020 just for laughs. You don't really need a gantry but it can help.

[64studeavanti]

I have removed bodies from 3 cars, 2 Studebaker Avantis and a Speedster. Was not very difficult, however, I have 2 post lift.

Just curious, why do you want/need to remove body?

[SCPO-PD]

Well All I got the car home last night and got to poke my head under in inside RBQ-3616.  RBQ-3616 has most it not all options / upgrades.

The frame and undercarriage isn't as bad as I feared.  Actually RBQ-3616 is in MUCH better shape then I feared.

The hog troughs are intact and still have much of the factory sprayed paint/sound dampening.  Knocking on them shows that they seem to be solid.  I do have a few spots on the frame that will require the dropping of the frame.  I do need to look at the rear cross member as my son said it was pretty ugly (A MUST Repair).

The interior shows its age and water impact from the leaking moon roof but everything seems to work.  I need to research the add on security system so that I can remove it.  The interior (leather) needs mink oil or something.  Carpet & floor padding - in tact but toast. 

The moon roof is leaking, needs rework, and inop. 

The roof (passenger side) behind the moon roof has separated from the metal(?) underneath.

Engine needs a good going through (55K ish miles and runs).  AC compressor is frozen.  Power Steering pump loose. But it Runs, idles, and moves the car from point A to point B.

Breaks need a solid go through.

So with this being said....

I see 4 MUST attacks breaks, engine, moon roof / roof top, and rear cross member.

I have 2 months as I have a car show at my church (Iron Chariots Car Show - Ivor, VA - www.ivorbaptistchurch.org) that I would love to have RQB-3616 present for without having to trailer it there and back.

I will get some pictures taken and posted as I REALLY think that I got an AWESOME base to start with.

[64studeavanti]

If the rear crossmember is the tubular piece that goes under the spare wheel well, that is readily available from several vendors. Can be welded in place without removing body from frame. 

[SCPO-PD]

4 March 2023 - Fixed the trunk latch (put in a spacer at the top of the latch to set it at an angle so that it would catch. Fixed the Power Steering Pump alignment to allow cap to properly seat / open & close (2 small washers between block and pump frame.) Crawled under back of car to lay eyes on the rear Cross Member - Needs replacing but is still holding on. Topped off all fluids. Vacuumed trunk and car interior. Ended the day by taking RQB-3616 for a spin down the road.

 

 

[mfg]

On 3/1/2023 at 8:10 PM, SCPO-PD said:

I just purchased my 1983 and I am really thinking hard about where to start my rebuild/rework effort.  I am seriously considering the dropping of the frame and starting there.  I have found a few thoughts & ideas on how to do this online but the details are rather limited.  Anyplace where I can get the details ???

In 1994, the year I purchased my '83 Avanti (RQB3655) the seller told me I should replace the frame before driving it much.... (it had 96,000 miles on it then.)

I ended up replacing much of the frame's bottom plate, and also building replacement  'hog troughs'.

My '83 now has 550,000+ everyday miles on it..and that original frame is still smiling!😁

[SCPO-PD]

1 hour ago, mfg said:

In 1994, the year I purchased my '83 Avanti (RQB3655) the seller told me I should replace the frame before driving it much.... (it had 96,000 miles on it then.)

I ended up replacing much of the frame's bottom plate, and also building replacement  'hog troughs'.

My '83 now has 550,000+ everyday miles on it..and that original frame is still smiling!😁

While poking my head underneath yesterday I noted a portion of the frame that I will need to build back the bottom plate.    Luckily the son knows how to wield. 

[Zedman]

My rear Crossmember was looking decidedly ugly so I replaced it when I replicated a new Frame. If you have very serious corrosion back there, and I suspect you might, you might find the channel shaped Brackets for supporting the rear Bumper are nasty enough to need replacement too (see group 1807-12). My Left one was pretty good,  but the right rear one was severely pitted and I wanted to replace it, so I sketched it up and made one. It cost me very little and despite holding it in a Vice and flogging it over with a mallet it came out size-perfect. Photos supplied....

Edited March 5, 2023 by Zedman

[64studeavanti]

9 hours ago, SCPO-PD said:

While poking my head underneath yesterday I noted a portion of the frame that I will need to build back the bottom plate.    Luckily the son knows how to wield. 

Sounds like good progress. Just be aware of scope creep. After all, you only have 2 months to work on it. 

[SCPO-PD]

On 3/5/2023 at 7:38 AM, 64studeavanti said:

Sounds like good progress. Just be aware of scope creep. After all, you only have 2 months to work on it. 

I currently have RQB-3616 up on stands as I want to be able to crawl under to see the entire picture and to be able to pull the tires off and look at the brakes.  It looks like RQB-3616 sat on the ground for a couple of years in a backyard.  All of the hard rust on the frame looks to be limited to the bottom inch / inch and a half.  The front Brakes look extremely fresh.  I need to pull the rear tires to see what they look like.  After this effort I plan on bleeding the breaks, taking the car down from the stands, and see what I can possibly do to correct the moon roof in order to get her ready for the show.

Tires have been removed in order to inspect brakes. Front Brakes look clean and recently reworked. More than good enough to get me to Iron Chariots Car Show and back. Rear Breaks..... are a somewhat different story. After a good can of break cleaner on each side and solid blow down I think they will also be good enough to get me to Iron Chariots Car Show and back.

All Need a Good Bleeding!! That is up next - post installation of speed bleeders.

Pictures to follow.

Of Note - I MAY not need to drop the frame......

[Zedman]

Just a word of caution regarding Brake systems that have been dormant for a protracted time.  I have had two Studes in that category and both had seized Aluminium pistons (corroded) and blocked Flexible Hoses. The exterior condition might look ok but when I looked under the rubber boots... OMG. Do yourself a favour and dismantle the internals of your Wheel Cylinders and Disc Calipers. I wasted my time not doing that. Don't just bleed 'em- Inspect them.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Zedman

[Gunslinger]

Brakes are simply too important to not maintain properly.  Even the design and parts are the best they’re barely good enough.  If there’s any uncertainty about the age and condition of the brakes then a complete rehab is in order…new rubber hoses…caliper or wheel cylinder rebuild or replacement…pads and shoes…caliper and drum inspection and matching if necessary…metal lines as well.  No matter how good the looks or runs…if it doesn’t stop the rest is immaterial.

[SCPO-PD]

Gunslinger & Zedman,

I was out on RQB-3616 yesterday and was able to install the speed bleeders on the front calipers and and after seeing the color of the fluid coming out and the conditions of piece parts...  I had decided that I need to really rebuild the front & rear breaks.  I was logging on to this forum to seek out information and opinion of things that I had found and noted both of your postings. 

With this being said - what is better?  The Turner front break conversion or rebuilding the as built system?  Pricing things out (To include the rear breaks) there doesn't seem to be a major cost difference.  I am leaning of keeping the as built system but????  I have looked at the Turner Brakes & Studebaker International Catalogue sites...

Thoughts?

[Gunslinger]

The original system is perfectly adequate for a vehicle the size of an Avanti but was designed for a much lighter car.  The problem with it today is the expense of parts today…original parts in good, rebuildable shape are not that easy to come by plus they’re expensive…and reproduction parts are also not cheap.  For the money the Turner brake kit is better…parts are easier to source and less expensive.

I would install the Turner kit of the front and rebuild the original rear brakes.  There’s no real reason to convert the rear brakes to discs as the front brakes carry most of the load and that conversion really jumps the expense and work.

[Zedman]

At risk of contradicting Gunslinger (no criticism, mind).  My slant on this is the K.I.S.S. principle.

Gunslingers suggestion for the Turner conversion is valid IF you wish to have bigger/ more powerful brakes.

Just me- I like original with minimal change/expense

I have recently replaced my rusty Cast Iron Disc Brake Pots with 2 1/8" (original dia) Jaguar Stainless steel units, plus bent up all new steel brake lines. It was not worth a re sleeve nor economical to buy new original ones from SI through my parts supplier here in Oz.  New parts are much more reasonable in the USA.  (SI quoted me about $130 USD each some months back- and I needed 4).

Edited March 14, 2023 by Zedman

[Footer]

The first (and maybe only) time I drove my 83 in the dark I came across a dopey  little dog on my county road. First time I ever slammed on the brakes like that and realized how much less effective 60 year old brakes (and headlights) are compared to the new stuff we are used to. Hope to get my Turner brakes installed this spring. Also put on the driving lights so I could see better. Oh yeah, missed the dog. Mike

[SCPO-PD]

Well I pulled the pin on the first project grenade.  I initially bought all old school / original brake equipment but ran into what started as OOS (Out of Stock) issues that ultimately resulted in poor Customer Service.  The short - when I am paying anyone what I consider to be a  large sum of my hard earned money I expect communication and action.  We.... I got neither so I chose go half and half.  I just ordered the Turner Conversion kit for the front brakes and will go all new old school on the rear drums.

Looking forward to getting everything in the mail so that I can get to work.

[SCPO-PD]

Starting to get parts in... Got the Rear Cross Member from Nostalgic Motor Cars. I got a call explaining how to do the install - Much Appreciated!!!

Brake Parts to include a Turner Conversion kit, new brake lines, and everything to rebuild the rear brakes should be arriving soon!!!

I also crawled under the car and got a good look at the frame and it looks GREAT minus the few spots that I noted earlier. My mind has been changed about having to separate the frame and body.  I am pretty sure that I can get the limited amount of wielding needed by simply dropping the rear end.

God is Good!!!

[Zedman]

When you recondition your Brake system, take off the Proportioning Valve and give it a wash out as best you can. Don't neglect this unit because if it is jammed with muck, you may have braking issues. I pulled mine apart (Stuck, and full of sludge) completely and did a heap of research on these. The Bob Johnstone Tech site has a qoutation somewhere stating they're a Bendix unit, which is false for our years' range.

They are a Kelsey-Hayes unit and are a little obscure- Nostalgic do sell 'em new but they will already be 'shelf old'.

Not quite all the parts are available to recondition them although the gent running this site has written an "Autopsy" on 'em and sells kits for most parts.   https://musclecarresearch.com/content/kelsey-hayes-combination-brake-valve-research

A Video here-

Because you are fitting a higher performance Disc Brake system, you might investigate a 'tuneable' proportioning valve and relegate the oldie to the old parts archive.

Pardon my two cents' worth but there is almost NOTHING on the SDC/ Avanti forums on the subject of Proportioning Valves and I believe it is worthy of consideration.

[SCPO-PD]

Got to start the brake effort. Received the Turner Kit last Friday and got the fronts ripped out this evening.  Thinking I might go ahead and replace the shocks and clean/seal/paint the front frame while I am here.....  Trying to NOT scope creep to much but......  The old brakes came off rather easy.  I didn't have any problems breaking the old bolts free with the exception of the very last one which snapped.

[Zedman]

I can recommend cleaning up the backing plate using the electrolysis method. It removes all the rust within a couple of hours and is dead easy.