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Overweight Avanti!


mfg
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2 hours ago, 64studeavanti said:

I guess I must have failed English. Doesn't equal mean the same and similar mean having characteristics in common, but maybe not the same?

I don't have a dictionary in front of me, however to me equal means "exactly the same as".........whereas similar, to me, means "a close approximate".....

I'm no English major either, but I believe I'm correct about these definitions.

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Ok, so using your definition, your question implied that both the R1 and R2 were exactly configured. As far as the shipping weights go, that is not true. The R1 had T86 as standard and R2 had T10. Therefore, assuming there is a difference in weight between the two transmissions, 55 lbs cannot be true.

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18 minutes ago, 64studeavanti said:

Ok, so using your definition, your question implied that both the R1 and R2 were exactly configured. As far as the shipping weights go, that is not true. The R1 had T86 as standard and R2 had T10. Therefore, assuming there is a difference in weight between the two transmissions, 55 lbs cannot be true.

Now, 64studeavanti.....you're trying to add language again:o!! (shipping weights)........Who ever mentioned shipping weights??

Suggest you re-read my original post, take a couple aspirin, and then get a good night's sleep.....Ed:D

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You really are a piece of work. If you don't like the answer, re-interpret the question. The problem I have with all this is that you are promulgating misinformation. We already have enough of that. You are trying to imply that the SN60 and associated braketry adds 55 lbs. This is only true if T86 and T10 weigh the same. 

Perhaps Bob is willing to share his source.

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15 minutes ago, 64studeavanti said:

You really are a piece of work. If you don't like the answer, re-interpret the question. The problem I have with all this is that you are promulgating misinformation. We already have enough of that. You are trying to imply that the SN60 and associated braketry adds 55 lbs. This is only true if T86 and T10 weigh the same. 

Perhaps Bob is willing to share his source.

Say goodnight Gracie!!!:D

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On 3/22/2022 at 6:49 PM, mfg said:

All else being equal, the difference in weight between an R1 equipped 1963 Studebaker Avanti, and an R2 powered model is approx .......?...... lbs.

1) 35....2) 55......3) 67.....or.....4) 75

Did many of us miss the original wording, "All else being equal"?  That is explicit and tightly defined to have only one meaning: NOTHING else is different between the two '63 Avantis except the engines.  One is an R1, the other is an R2.  With the wording of the question there is NO wiggle room to claim that the two cars have different transmissions!  How did that idea enter into the discussion?

--Dwight

Edited by Dwight FitzSimons
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6 hours ago, Dwight FitzSimons said:

Did many of us miss the original wording, "All else being equal"?  That is explicit and tightly defined to have only one meaning: NOTHING else is different between the two '63 Avantis except the engines.  One is an R1, the other is an R2.  With the wording of the question there is NO wiggle room to claim that the two cars have different transmissions!  How did that idea enter into the  discussion?

Well Dwight, I know of at least one person who missed the original wording!!!!!

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It became part of the discussion because the base R1 was being compared to the base R2 for a weight difference of 55 lbs according to the production data. The 55 lbs was deemed correct. I pointed out that this cannot be the case since "all things are not equal" 

Edited by 64studeavanti
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3 hours ago, 64studeavanti said:

It became part of the discussion because the base R1 was being compared to the base R2 for a weight difference of 55 lbs according to the production data. The 55 lbs was deemed correct. I pointed out that this cannot be the case since "all things are not equal" 

There was nothing in the original question about comparing base R1 car to base R2 car.  The original question simply stated: "All else being equal." 

Reading something into a question that wasn't explicitly stated would have gotten me into trouble in my physics and engineering courses.  I learned not to do that early on.

--Dwight

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I'm checking with my lawyer on this one😗

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Once again, the 55 lbs is the difference between the base R1 with 3spd and base R2 with 4spd. This can be verified by looking at the production data published in a book available from the Studebaker museum. As far as I know, there is no source that specifies that 55 lbs is the difference between equally configured R1 and R2. If Ed, or any one has a source for this, it should be posted so this question can be answered correctly. 

FWIW, I was not reading anything into the question. The first answer was 55 lbs. I responded to that stating that that difference was incorrect based on the premise that the production data compares R1 with 3spd to R2 with 4spd. In other words, "all things NOT being equal".

Ed, please provide the source for your answer. Dwight, if I made a statement in the papers I published without any corroborating evidence ...

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On 3/23/2022 at 3:58 PM, regnalbob said:

The 1964 registration data from Studebaker shows the 4 speed weighs 5 lbs less than the 3 speed.

 

On 3/24/2022 at 10:25 AM, mfg said:

Wrong Bob!...64studeavanti indicates his internet sources state the T-10 weighs about 100 lbs, whereas the T-86 comes in around 75 lbs.

Why am I wrong?

The information is from a Studebaker Service Letter sent to dealers for Registration and Licensing.

If you have a problem with this, I suggest you contact E.J. Challinor at Studebaker Automotive Sales Corp. and tell him he is wrong.Weights.thumb.jpg.4dedcfc2dda8d8ac39f2531ef6c909c3.jpg

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Hard to believe that T10 is 5lb  less than T 86. Also that  V8 auto is only 21 lbs heavier. In any case, I don't want you argue with documentation. That being the case, the difference between R1 and R2 "all things being equal" is 50 lbs.

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Let me pose a physics problem:

We have two '63 Avantis.  One is an R1 4-spd with no other options.  The other is an R2 4-spd with no other options.  What is the difference in weight between the two?  Obviously, the only contributor to the increased weight of the R2 car is the supercharger and its associated components.

There is a bit of a problem in finding factory data to determine the answer.  Alternately, someone could weigh his supercharger & associated parts.

But, we CANNOT compare an R1 3-spd to an R2 4-spd because that violates the caveat in the original question: "All else being equal."

--Dwight

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2 minutes ago, Dwight FitzSimons said:

Let me pose a physics problem:

We have two '63 Avantis.  One is an R1 4-spd with no other options.  The other is an R2 4-spd with no other options.  What is the difference in weight between the two?  Obviously, the only contributor to the increased weight of the R2 car is the supercharger and its associated components.

There is a bit of a problem in finding factory data to determine the answer.  Alternately, someone could weigh his supercharger & associated parts.

But, we CANNOT compare an R1 3-spd to an R2 4-spd because that violates the caveat in the original question: "All else being equal."

--Dwight

Thanks again Dwight,......I suggested for him to take a few aspirin and try getting a good night's sleep, but obviously that didn't help.

A Paxton supercharger, its mounting bracket, idler arm and pulley weigh approximately 55 lbs....and yes, in the original question I stated approximately. (approx)

This is really all I have to say about this..................Take care,   Ed:)

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Dwight, I agree we cannot compare R1 3spd with R2 4spd in order to answer this question. That is why I made post #3. I pointed out that we must take into account the weight difference between the two transmissions. Thanks to Bob's posting, we know that Studebaker deemed the T10 to weigh 5 lbs less than T86. So the correct answer is 50 lbs based on the available data. 

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