Supercharger Oil Change!

[mfg]

Well, I’m ashamed of myself!

After postponing changing out the supercharger fluid on my ‘63 R2 Avanti for WAY too long, I finally did the deed this morning……….

I actually changed the fluid in two superchargers today, the other being a McCulloch ‘57 Golden Hawk system….

The fluid I pumped out of both blowers was BLACK!!!!… Not good… however, when checking, the fluid always looked very clean on the dipsticks of both units.

Anyway, both blowers seem to be working OK…… but from what I saw today I’d recommend to anyone who owns a supercharged Stude to change its fluid at least once every two years…. or annually if you drive your car a lot!

 

[Dwight FitzSimons]

Of course you didn't get all of the black stuff out of your superchargers when you sucked the old fluid out.  What you might do now to get essentially all of it out is to change the fluid again very soon.

There has been some lively discussion on what fluid to use in superchargers within the last year or so on either this forum or the SDC Forum.

--Dwight

[Leo B]

Thanks for reminding to change the oil. 👍
I have a rebuilt Paxton and the seller said TYPE-F ONLY - nothing else. This has about 5000 miles and three years. The oil is not completely black and there are no visible particles in it. The color has darkened from red.

Edited June 4 by Leo B

[mfg]

4 hours ago, Leo B said:

Thanks for reminding to change the oil. 👍
I have a rebuilt Paxton and the seller said TYPE-F ONLY - nothing else. This has about 5000 miles and three years. The oil is not completely black and there are no visible particles in it. The color has darkened from red.

I also used the ‘F’ type fluid…. although the container specified it met the requirements of almost everything else!

[mfg]

12 hours ago, Dwight FitzSimons said:

Of course you didn't get all of the black stuff out of your superchargers when you sucked the old fluid out.  What you might do now to get essentially all of it out is to change the fluid again very soon.

There has been some lively discussion on what fluid to use in superchargers within the last year or so on either this forum or the SDC Forum.

--Dwight

Yes Dwight, after I pumped out the bad stuff, I immediately refilled with new fluid, rotated blower, then pumped that out… then, I once again refilled with new fluid…After a week or two I’ll once again pump out both superchargers… then refill.

[Leo B]

About the oil color

https://riautomotive.net/dark-brown-transmission-fluid-needs-to-be-changed-right-away/

Since you can't see the color on the dipstick, you either check by sucking a sample, by wiping the stick on a white cloth or change it regularly. In my experience, that 5000 miles could be a good limit - I think. The oil is used so little that this is not a cost issue.

If you change the oil on time, I think you don't need to flush the entire oil chamber.

Edited June 5 by Leo B

[mfg]

5 hours ago, Leo B said:

About the oil color

https://riautomotive.net/dark-brown-transmission-fluid-needs-to-be-changed-right-away/

Since you can't see the color on the dipstick, you either check by sucking a sample, by wiping the stick on a white cloth or change it regularly. In my experience, that 5000 miles could be a good limit - I think. The oil is used so little that this is not a cost issue.

If you change the oil on time, I think you don't need to flush the entire oil chamber.

I used to be right on top of these things… but I guess I’m slipping a little!

No one needs the expensive of a Paxton rebuild if they can help it!

[Dwight FitzSimons]

16 hours ago, mfg said:

Yes Dwight, after I pumped out the bad stuff, I immediately refilled with new fluid, rotated blower, then pumped that out… then, I once again refilled with new fluid…After a week or two I’ll once again pump out both superchargers… then refill.

Good!  After the discussion a year or so ago on fluids to use in blowers I concluded, for me, to use B&M Trick Shift, the blue non-synthetic ATF.  It meets Type F ATF standards.

--Dwight

 

[mfg]

I think the B&M fluid is similar to Ford ‘Type F’ ……..in that it’s less ‘slippery’ than some other ATF’s.

[Nelson]

I’ve mentioned this before years ago using type F trans fluid.I noticed the dipstick would get very hot, especially on long trips. It was so hot that I needed a rag to insulated my fingers from the dipstick when pulling it out to check the level. I also went through drive sets too often. I changed over to Mobil 1 synthetic trans fluid. I found that I could now check the oil without using a rag but just my bare hands. I would think this tells me the fluid is not being sheared at the bearing interface which would produce the heat. My bearing problem is gone. Maybe the B&M Trickshift does the same thing? Did you notice a reduction in blower temperature on trips or even around town?

[mfg]

20 hours ago, Nelson said:

I’ve mentioned this before years ago using type F trans fluid.I noticed the dipstick would get very hot, especially on long trips. It was so hot that I needed a rag to insulated my fingers from the dipstick when pulling it out to check the level. I also went through drive sets too often. I changed over to Mobil 1 synthetic trans fluid. I found that I could now check the oil without using a rag but just my bare hands. I would think this tells me the fluid is not being sheared at the bearing interface which would produce the heat. My bearing problem is gone. Maybe the B&M Trickshift does the same thing? Did you notice a reduction in blower temperature on trips or even around town?

I like the sound of this!

[John C]

       I installed a rebuilt blower on my R2 and used Valvoline Synthetic Transmission Fliud.  It has less than 2,000 miles on it and is now growling at me. So now I get to spend my money again. Lesson learned no synthetic! Type F only!   Just thought I would pass that along.

                                                                                                                               John C.

                                                                 

[Gunslinger]

Planetary ball superchargers need a certain amount of friction to operate properly.  If the fluid is too slick the planetary balls will skid rather than spin and roll and develop hot spots and fail.  

[Nelson]

You are right on the traction required. The traction actually comes from the steel balls giving a little bit at the interface with the race. Sort of like where the tire meets the ground. A friend tried precision ceramic drive balls in a blower thinking since they were lighter they wouldn’t have the tendency to spread the outer races from the centrifugal force at higher rpm. What happened is the balls easily slipped on the inner race. The ceramic balls did not flatten at all at the interface so could not get traction to transfer the energy.

As for Valvoline synthetic trans fluid not working out in your blower I’m not sure what to tell you. I’ve had multiple failures with type f fluid and none with Mobile 1 synthetic. A friend down in Australia just wrote me the other day. He has less than 2000 miles on his rebuilt Paxton running type F fluid and it started growling so is now off the car and into the repair shop.

Also, at one time Paxton Products used the engine oiling system to lubricate the blower. They discontinued that method but I think due to contaminating the engine oil when the inevitable blower failure occurred. 

[Gunslinger]

In his book They Call Me Mister 500...Andy Granatelli spoke of the supercharger problem and they found that builders were not mic'ing the balls to make sure all were identical diameters...thus some were carrying too much of the load under use and failed.  Could this be the issue raising its ugly head again?  

[mfg]

16 hours ago, John C said:

       I installed a rebuilt blower on my R2 and used Valvoline Synthetic Transmission Fliud.  It has less than 2,000 miles on it and is now growling at me. So now I get to spend my money again. Lesson learned no synthetic! Type F only!   Just thought I would pass that along.

                                                                                                                               John C.

                                                                 

That’s very unfortunate…. But thanks for posting this info.