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WayneC

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Posts posted by WayneC

  1. Devildog, my notes say the rear brake cylinder kits are "Lockheed Wagner F8418" ... the "F8418" is likely an EIS industry standard part number that can be from multiple parts suppliers (Federal Mogul, Wagner, Bendix etc).

    When I used Warren's link to Amazon, I found I had bought those same cylinders from Amazon back in 2009

    and used them on my '80 Avanti.

  2. See the schematic below (which illustrates a leak in the front brake line... ignore that leak for this discussion).

    MC1.jpg

    Seems to me that if only the front M/C reservoir loses fluid, then it should not be leaking to the booster unit... I believe there are seals on the M/C piston that would have to be leaking from either both (front & rear) chambers, or the rear chamber only, in order for fluid to leak through to the booster. I suppose it would be possible for the front reservoir to empty first, and then the rear, if all the piston seals were leaking.

    Normally the front (smaller) reservoir services the rear brakes, so you might want to trace the rear brake lines looking for leaks rather than the front lines. You may also need to remove the rear drums to look for fluid that got past the brake cylinder seals inside the wheel (although you may see traces of the leak externally at the inside rim of the drum, or damp lines running radially out on the inner tire sidewall).

  3. Devidog:

    I believe it's the same kit as for a Jaguar E-type 2 1/8" bore (also used on Mark 2 Jags), but I think later XKE has a slightly larger bore (2 1/4"), which may require a different kit (or maybe not, I'm not sure).

    I have a notation in my parts book that the front cylinder seal kit is Girling SP2556, about $40 for a 4-cylinder kit.

    Probably any Avanti parts dealer can sell you the seal kits.

    And just to muddy the water, here's an online vendor offering NOS front cylinders for $100 each

    https://www.studebakerparts.com/studebakerparts/store/s/agora.cgi?product=brk4&cart_id=4704.31055

    (Apple price to resleeve your old cylinder in brass and add new seals is $95, which arguably may be the better option in the long run)...

  4. Got a quick and courteous reply from "Lazar" at Apple Hydraulics (for brass resleeving)...

    "(a) Take the cylinders off, take the pistons out and send us empty cylinders for resleeving. We return them cleaned, resleeved to original bore size (2.125") and ready for reassembly which you do with a kit you provide. Cost: $60 each cylinder

    (Send us cylinders as they came off the caliper (with pistons still in). We return resleeved, cleaned, and assembled with new OEM seal kit, ready to bolt back on the caliper. Cost $95 each cylinder

    © Send complete calipers. We will do (on each cylinder, clean the middle part and re-attach the cylinders. Cost: $285 each caliper ($190 to do two cylinders plus $95 for extra work). Add $30 each for new cross-over line installed.

    Turnaround time is one week here, in the shop. You get same parts back (not exchange). For shipping from Calif.we recommend flat rate priority mail, it is half the cost and half the time compared to UPS. See http://postcalc.usps.com/ "

  5. Warren, my proportioning valve doesn't look like yours. I don't think it's been changed, as the car is a 1971 and I purchased it in 1978, I think, with about 40k miles on it at the time; it looked entirely stock. It had an engine change in the mid 1980's, and frame-on restoration around 1990. I've never messed with the proportioning valve, and I've done most of the mechanical and electrical work on this car myself since I've owned it.

  6. Just realized I never did mention that my Avanti is a '71. I also own an '80.

    Gunslinger, after some research I read that proportioning valves can do more than just warn you, they can actually shut off the side of the system that lost brake fluid pressure (dunno if my Avanti valve does that). And, I suppose it's possible for the valve to go bad, cutting off fluid to the front brakes. Even if the valve is not bad, but had purposely cut off fluid because of a leak in the front brake system (when I first started work on it, I did find the left front flex hose fitting was leaking), I wonder what restores the valve to it's normal position once it's been activated? Possibly by using the method Bob uses to pressure-bleed brakes from the brake cylinder end, thereby pushing the valve back to it's normal position? I'm not sure if that explains why I'm unable to vacuum bleed, though, I do get fluid, but always laced with bubbles. Actually, I think the MityVac may be able to perform that same reverse pressure-bleeding method, since it has a switch to change it from vacuum to pressure; I need to check the booklet that came with it.

    In an eBay search, the closest physical appearance match I could find for the valve is one for a 1969 Corvette, but it's not a perfect cosmetic match, and the Vette has front and rear disks. Next closest valve I found was for a '67 to '70 Mopar, but the overall shape is not as close as the Vette and I couldn't find a picture showing the front side of that valve. Considering the Avanti master cylinder was a Chrysler design, I would expect the proportioning valve might be a Chrysler part as well (although there are also a couple of Ford master cylinders that can be used as Avanti replacements by adapting the brake line fitting sizes).

  7. Gunslinger, I overlooked this comment from you:

    "Your car should have two blocks in the brake line...a distribution block which splits brake fluid to front and rear. You also have a proportioning valve which directs more fluid to the front than rear brakes since the front does most of the braking load. It's fixed, not adjustable so if there's a problem there it would have to be a clog in the line somewhere."

    Actually there appear to be 2 pipes from the M/C, one to each side of the steel proportioning valve below the M/C, and 2 pipes coming out of the front of the proportioning valve, I assume one to the front brakes (with a junction block somewhere to send fluid to each front brake and each rear brake cyl). There is also a tube extending out of the front of the block with an electrical wire, I assume for a warning light. It is hard to see the block, I wish I had photographed it when I had the M/C out, but here is a photo of it installed...

    http://www2.snapfish.com/snapfish/slideshow/AlbumID=5692985023/PictureID=277530940023/a=6083595023_6083595023/otsc=SHR/otsi=SPIClink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfish/

  8. Warren, I looked at the Hyedracyl website, and it appears the 2 1/8" SS wheel cylinders are priced at $240 each... that's $85 more than the XKS wheel cylinders!

    http://xks.com/i-6916970-gr-64932067ss-wheel-cylinder-2-1-8-stainless-steel.html

    http://www.hyedracyl.com/etype.html

    On your rear brake shoes... is it possible they had been installed in reverse (front shoe where rear shoe should be)?

    As for front cylinders seizing... I first used my originals, which showed no sign of leakage, but then the brake shop put in the brand new set from my parts stash.

    I live in sunny CA, corrosion is not much of an an issue here (sun & heat are the great enemies; I lived in Michigan through the 1970's decade, so I'm familiar with corrosion)

    Brad, good point for readers; I am aware of the pushrod adjustment, and I did that adjustment when I installed the first M/C, and I double-checked the adjustment for the M/C that the brake shop installed.

    Again, my issue appears to be air bubbles in the right front front brake hard line that I haven't been able to eliminate despite extensive bleeding, but it's hard to understand why only the right, and why the air bubbles persist (even when bleeding from the steel brake line itself, ahead of the flex hose), yet apparently no fluid leakage/loss when everything is connected and the brake pedal is pushed. Pedal is soft, but not sinking.

    When bleeding with the pedal-pump method, there was no sinking pedal with the wheel cylinder bleed valves closed, but the pedal was kinda spongy & middling height and never did reach the expected high & hard condition.

    When I had the car on the road after the brake shop worked on it, the braking was so weak as to be downright scary to me; locking the wheels would have been impossible. The braking was fine before the car was left sitting a few years.

    I did find a 5-year-old quote on stainless re-sleeving by "Karps Power Brake" in CA (east of L.A.)... it was $60 each + shipping both ways. Likely more now. I would also need to buy & install seal kits. http://www.karpspowerbrake.com/

  9. Appreciate your thoughts, Gunslinger.

    I've owned and worked on five different Avanti's since the mid-70's. I've owned this Avanti since about 1979. I converted all of them to silicone fluid, bleeding never was a problem, nor was it on this Avanti until now. Like I said, the car sat for quite a while, and when I started getting it roadworthy again the M/C was empty, so I put in a rebuilt one (and the shop I took it to later changed-out my "new" one for a second rebuilt M/C, thus my concern over their competency). But I had trouble bleeding the right front brake, which is why I ended up having it transported it to a brake shop. I spent several long bleeding sessions over the course of a week (using manual pedal-pump AND MityVac, wore my hand muscles out squeezing the MityVac) before I gave up on it. Considering that after I got it back from the shop and found it still braked very poorly, and that I couldn't bleed it at the line end upstream of the right flex hose, and that I'm not losing fluid or seeing bubbles in the M/C reservoir, I don't think I can blame the RF cylinders or the booster for the bubbles.

    I'm aware of inferior brake pad issues, I've had them, so I generally buy pads from Nostalgic. But brake pads have nothing to do with my not getting a hard pedal or my inability to bleed the right front. If the booster were leaking air into the brake system somehow, I would expect the bleeding issue to show up in the left front first (not the right), and I'd also expect the reservoir fluid level to go down. I consider the inability to bleed to be a key symptom.

    I will check the booster... that's a possibility I hadn't explored.... but I never did get a good high, hard pedal, which I blamed on my inability to properly bleed the front right brake. Just trying to figure out why I can't get it bled properly. Booster shouldn't enter into that... I don't seem to be losing fluid, nor am I seeing bubbles in the M/C reservoir. Last issue I had with a booster was on this car, and it manifested itself in a high pedal with the front brakes being partially applied all the time; a booster rebuild solved that. I could just get the booster rebuilt again, but I think that's just throwing parts at the problem rather than solving it.

  10. Good point, Gunslinger... according to their price list, for about $650 + shipping you get calipers, rotors, pads and hoses; and if I'm interpreting the installation instructions properly, the only parts you need supply are some grease seals, and you must machine a tab off the supplied GM calipers (wonder why Turner doesn't do that step, and supply the seals with the kit?).

    New XKS stainless brake cylinders alone would run $600.

    Don't know the price for re-sleeving my originals.

    It's not an immediate need, I recently installed a set of new wheel cylinders and flex hoses I had in my parts stash and I was thinking about having the old wheel cylinders re-sleeved.

    ***************


    Actually, I'm having a weird issue with the brakes (the car has been sitting for several years)... probably too complicated to go into here, but after replacing the front pads and a leaking master cylinder, I had difficulty bleeding the brakes (both pedal-pump method and MityVac) so I had the car towed to a brake shop. I supplied them with all the parts I had in my stash, and they installed a (second) rebuilt master cylinder, new rear shoes, and new front cylinders... pretty much everything!

    When I picked up the car they said that the rear brakes were squeaking and that the brakes didn't feel quite right but that I should drive the car for awhile to see if it would "wear in". It didn't, and in fact braking was so weak it felt to me like only the rears were working. I had to leave on an extended trip and didn't get the car back to the shop. On my return months later, I tried again to bleed the front brakes, but was unsuccessful bleeding the right front; I even tried bleeding the line before the flexible hose, using the MityVac, and that didn't work (never got solid fluid). So apparently I have a problem upstream, somewhere between the master cylinder and the flex hose.

    Since I don't seem to have a fluid leak (the M/C stays full), and since the car doesn't pull to the left when braking, I am baffled.

    I now don't trust the shop, their expertise seems to be just replacing parts, so I haven't had the car transported back to them.

    I have very little knowledge about how a proportioning valve works.

    Descriptions of proportioning valves seem to tell you what they do, but not how they do it.

    Since I don't seem to have a fluid leak, is it possible the proportioning valve is simply not directing any pressure to the front brakes? Didn't see a warning light, but the light could be non-op.

    That still may not explain why I can bleed the left front, but not the right front.

    Possibly an air leak in the hard line to the right brake that doesn't affect the left brake?

    ...But then, why wouldn't I get a profuse fluid leak when pressing the brake pedal?

    Hard to see much with the car parked on my sloped driveway, I assume there is a splitter in the front brake line between the proportioning valve and the brakes, I just don't know where it is.

  11. Having never attempted it, I can't really comment, but I'm curious: what were the other methods you'd heard about?

    I probably would have tried to use something with a hook, sort of an ice pick with it's pointed end bent back on itself, to pull/stretch the spring and finesse it onto the anchoring tab.

    What you did seems to have worked out fine and didn't require any special tools (the extra set of hands might be an issue for me, though).

  12. I'm not all that knowledgeable, but here's my take:

    Power steering is an add-on option, I don't think anything changes in the steering column or box. Basically a pump, a hydraulic control valve (with pitman arm attached), and a hydraulic power steering assist cylinder are added; on many cars a manual steering shock absorber is replaced by a power assist cylinder, but in looking at the parts manual, it does not appear that manual-steering Avanti's used a steering shock absorber.

    The power assist cylinder (1551562) can push or pull to assist the wheels to turn (by pushing or pulling on the bellcrank), depending on whether you are turning right or left, but something must tell it which way you want to turn. That's the (1556068) valve attached to the pitman arm, with that valve being operated by the "pivot ball" you reference as moving... the ball has to move to cover/uncover the proper hydraulic ports to direct fluid pressure to either push or pull that power assist cylinder rod (with force in proportion to the resistance the wheels offer to being turned and the input the driver makes by turning the steering wheel).

    Think of that pivot ball being like the lever of a kitchen sink faucet, which can give low or high flow (force) and either hot or cold water (analogous to direction), and the lever must move in order to control those parameters.

    So, movement of that pivot ball would be normal, especially if it is pushing against hard resistance (like when the wheels aren't rolling and you turn the steering wheel).

    Don't be concerned about movement, do be concerned about fluid leakage.

  13. Avanti used Recaro seats (optional) or their own seats (standard).

    I assume you mean the standard seats and that the "button" is the large round chrome button near shoulder height on the seat back?

    Have you tried Nostalgic?

    71AvantiSeat.jpg

  14. I would suspect the air cleaner... check to make sure there is a gasket between the air horn and the air cleaner, and that the air cleaner base is flat (no dings/distortions). And check the vacuum hose to the transmission.

  15. You didn't say what problem/issue you are trying to resolve. Generally, the best approach is to verify that the carburetor has the factory stock parts, all clean and in good working order, set to Holley factory specs, with a fresh fuel filter. Once it's running smoothly, then go from there if you're not happy with those settings and are trying to tune for a specific condition/environment.

    Can't help you directly, but here is a link to a Corvette forum search on the 3367, which should be interesting to read (includes recommendations for rebuilders if you don't feel up to that task):

    http://forums.corvet...archid=35342645

    Here's some hits I found on Google:

    http://v8tvshow.com/...nt/view/110/28/

    http://www.junkyardg...ley/tune01.html

    http://www.nastyz28..../tech/htune.pdf

    I assume your '66 would be running AC 45 spark plugs, which probably aren't easy to find these days; here is a link to some currently on eBay:

    http://tinyurl.com/ccmy76j

    Don't settle for something that just has "45" as part of the number, except that R45 can be used if you aren't using resistor spark plug wires.

    If the spark plug electrodes are clean when inspected after a run, gapped correctly, and the wires are in good shape and snug, there should be no need for fancy (expensive) spark plugs.

    http://tinyurl.com/cr4bsq3

  16. I must admit I own earlier Avanti II's and haven't looked closely at the trunk latch setup on my '80, which uses a solenoid to unlatch the trunklid. I usually lurk on the 66-83 Avanti II forum, but occasionally I peruse this forum, so please forgive my uninformed question:

    Looks like a good idea, but where do you run the cable, ie, is this the same as original (for what year?), where does it attach at the ends and how do you get to the cable to pull it when needed?

    Thanks,

    Wayne

  17. Here's a photo of the bottom of the battery box on my '71 Avanti (modified by me to add a round rubber support bumper)

    http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a408/waynecpb/71%20Avanti/71Avantibatterybox_zpsb4cca794.jpg

    And a photo of the bottom of my '80 Avanti, which is different (has a better support, which I believe to be as-built by the factory)

    http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a408/waynecpb/71%20Avanti/81Avantibatterybox_zps163628aa.jpg

  18. Well, battery tray or no battery tray, you have the problem finessing the battery. Use a mechanics fender protector to try to avoid the scrapes. Removing the radiator reservoir and its connecting hoses gives you more room for a straight shot for the battery, but it's not easy removing those items, either.

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