1963 Avanti Brakes Rebuild How Much

[John E. Priester]

This is probably a :"dumb" question but here goes.  Acquired a 1963 R-1 Avanti  automatic in August of this year at an auction. Wife of owner said it had not been driven in three or four years but stored indoors.  Oil was clean as well as transmission fluid and radiator fluid.  Loaded the car and had it delivered by trailer/truck as it  would not start.  Unloading the car discovered it had no brakes.  Once off the trailer opened the brake fluid resevoir and found it was completely dry.

Question 1: Given that the car was in storage for 3 or 4 years, should I start by rebuilding the master cylinder, calibers and rear brake cylinders or just bite the bullet and start at the master braked cylinder and booster and replace all brake parts and lines with new and rebuilt parts.  My thinking is it would be best from a time stand point to just rebuild the entire system.  

Question 2: Are the brake parts that have rebuild kits available that I can rebuild them myself result in usable/reliable parts or are rebuilt/exchange units a better option.  I have always done all my own brake work on all of our vehicles for the past 30 years, so have "some" experience in rebuilding brake parts but I am NO Expert.

Thoughts or experiences world be appreciated. 

Thanks for reading!

John Priester

 

[Jolly-John]

John, my thought would be to first refill the brake system fluid, bleed everything, and then evaluate the situation. Perhaps you only have one component that failed, causing the fluid leak. Three or four years isn't an overly long time for the car to have been sitting. And, who knows what the previous owner may have already replaced in the past.

A couple of other thoughts: For overall safety reasons, this would be a good time to consider converting to a dual-chamber master cylinder (one section for the front brakes and one for the rears). Some guys don't approve of doing this, since it isn't stock. But, it certainly is a great safety addition to the car. There's plenty of information on the forum or online about parts needed and how to do this on a Avanti.

Also, don't assume the brake booster is bad, if you do decide to simply rebuild everything. That's a big cost item, and the booster typically doesn't suffer from sitting awhile. However, do inspect and test the vacuum check valve on the engine vac. hose that  leads into the brake booster. If stuck partially open, it can cause brake fluid to be sucked into the engine intake.  John

[Gunslinger]

If you don't know how long since the brakes have been properly serviced, you should consider a complete rebuild.  The rear wheel cylinders may well be rusted...the adjusting eccentrics for the rear brakes are probably seized...the hoses are likely soft and metal lines may be rusted..the brake shoes and pads may be brake fluid soaked.

The front brake rotors, if completely covered in rust may not be safe to turn down to acceptable thickness.  The front calipers could be rusted as well.  You really need to go through everything related to the brakes.

If the worst is what you're facing, definitely go the dual maser cylinder route...the added safety margin is worth it.  Consider upgrading the front brakes to the Turner Conversion kit sold by some of the Studebaker vendors or direct from Turner himself.  The cost of the upgrade is pretty much the same as a complete rebuild of the stock brakes if you need new rotors and calipers.  

I can only say DO NOT cheap out on the brakes!  They are simply too important for safe operation of your car.  Everything necessary to fix your brakes is available from Studebaker vendors...some parts might be available from local auto parts retailers but I've found the stuff they carry often doesn't fit like their guides say.  

[studegary]

Another voice of agreement.  I would at least check out every component of the brake system.  If the date on the brake hoses is more than eight years old, or worse yet if they are undated, change them to new ones.  Examine the steel lines, particularly where they go through attachment clips or where they touch something, like the frame.  Whoa is much more important than go.     

[Mel]

I would definitely go with the Turner conversion on the front.  As noted above, if you replace everything on the front, the difference in price probably won't be worth worrying about.  And, if you've ever tried adjusting and shimming up the original disk setup, you definitely will not worry about any extra cost -- it's painful.  Plus, an added bonus, the pads on Turner's setup are quite a bit larger giving much better braking.  Doing the conversion is not difficult at all.

[Ron Dame]

Here is the breakdown on my R2:  Booster $190. Master cylinder and Turner Brake kit (Got a deal from someone here on a n installed but not used kit and new master $500; Hoses and lines... maybe $125? Rear cylinders $85 each.. The car had brand new rear shoes and hardware, but sat for years. So for $1000, I have all new brakes.

[mfg]

12 minutes ago, Ron Dame said:

Here is the breakdown on my R2:  Booster $190. Master cylinder and Turner Brake kit (Got a deal from someone here on a n installed but not used kit and new master $500; Hoses and lines... maybe $125? Rear cylinders $85 each.. The car had brand new rear shoes and hardware, but sat for years. So for $1000, I have all new brakes.

Good choice up front!...Late model ventilated rotors with single piston floating calipers and larger 'kidney shaped' pads are a distinct improvement over the original Bendix/Dunlop setup, for anything but 'strictly show' Avantis!

[John E. Priester]

To All:

Thank you so much for all the advice and opinions.  As soon as the weather breaks and I can get the car up in the air will do a complete survey.  Since I plan on this being a "driver" was going to go to the dual circuit master cylinder.

Also looked at the disc brake adjustment procedure in the Avanti Service Manual.  WOW! Can't believe the steps required to change pads and adjust them.  Looked at the Turner conversion and it certainly seems a lot easier to change pads.  Will consider that change also.

Again, Thank you all for some very thoughtful replies and relating something I don't have, Experience working on Avanti's .  Hopefully in the near future I can pass along some help too.  When I get the brakes operational will give you all and update.

Regards,

John P   

[Jolly-John]

Hi, John. If you decide to stay with the stock front disc brakes, don't be put off by the shimming process covered in the shop manual. It really isn't as daunting as the manual makes it seem. Once you've got your hands in there,  I believe you'll find it is quite simple and reasonably quick to perform. That's my opinion, based on a reasonable amount of personal experience with the stock pad change.

Like the other guys, I feel the Turner conversion is a good upgrade. But, I don't consider it an "automatic" for someone contemplating brake rebuilding work on their Avanti. Again, just my opinion. John

[brad]

There's nothing wrong with four piston calipers with drilled and slotted rotors either.