Avanti '63' Brake Calipers.

[Mark L]

Dwight is correct, the spindles do not come in the kit.

I also opted to buy the stainless braided flex lines.

I think I figured out a way to reuse the original backing plates. It looks like I can possibly swap them side to side and trim them to match the new calipers. That will need to be a future project, however. I didn't come to this conclusion until after everything was assembled. I'll order the aviation grade bolts for the caliper brackets and do it all at the same time.

[aardvark]

Well, I just went on AvantiParts.biz, run by Robert Ziff. Brakes page 3.

His Turner Brake setup shows the whole assembly including spindles and new suspension mounts. $695ish and more for vented/grooved disks.  This is why I raised the question.

......

I gotta ask..On the Original Stock setup...

It there a Proportioning Valve in the Brake line Circuit? After everything i replaced... Booster, Master, worked over the calipers, ground down the disks, new pads...I still have the pedal dropping slowly to the floor after a few seconds. The brakes are working otherwise., but this problem is throwing me for a loop. I've bled the system out 3 times,, there is no air.

Edited September 10 by aardvark

[mfg]

37 minutes ago, aardvark said:

Well, I just went on AvantiParts.biz, run by Robert Ziff. Brakes page 3.

His Turner Brake setup shows the whole assembly including spindles and new suspension mounts. $695ish and more for vented/grooved disks.  This is why I raised the question.

......

I gotta ask..On the Original Stock setup...

It there a Proportioning Valve in the Brake line Circuit? After everything i replaced... Booster, Master, worked over the calipers, ground down the disks, new pads...I still have the pedal dropping slowly to the floor after a few seconds. The brakes are working otherwise., but this problem is throwing me for a loop. I've bled the system out 3 times,, there is no air.

Definitely no proportioning valve in the original Studebaker disc brake system.

Studebaker engineers decided that non self energizing rear drum brakes were all the proportioning their disc brake system needed!

Edited September 10 by mfg
Added text

[mfg]

5 minutes ago, mfg said:

 

 

Edited September 10 by mfg

[aardvark]

Thanks MFG.

Then I'm dumbfounded.

[mfg]

2 minutes ago, aardvark said:

Thanks MFG.

Then I'm dumbfounded.

If you didn’t say you replaced everything, I would have suspected a bad master cylimder.

[aardvark]

Well, that's what it's acting like. It came from Robert Ziff.(not like that matters, but)

The old Master was totally inop , thus the new. Next suspicion would be fluid leaks or air in the lines.. I've been all over the car looking for a leak and bled the system out 3 times. I did check the pushrod in the booster and it's the proper 1.249 -1.25" .

Even without a working Booster, this shouldn't happen as I see it.

End  game was to at least get the car on the road for a small number of miles w/ the Stock System.. Park it and convert to Turner and a dual Master setup.

I might just need to go to step 2 and abandon the whole "Stock" setup.

Edited September 10 by aardvark

[silverstude]

On 9/9/2024 at 2:09 PM, Mark L said:

Dwight is correct, the spindles do not come in the kit.

I also opted to buy the stainless braided flex lines.

I think I figured out a way to reuse the original backing plates. It looks like I can possibly swap them side to side and trim them to match the new calipers. That will need to be a future project, however. I didn't come to this conclusion until after everything was assembled. I'll order the aviation grade bolts for the caliper brackets and do it all at the same time.

You can use the original Dunlop system dust/rock guards with Turner brakes.  It takes a little work and creativity

[aardvark]

Road test failed. 

I had virtually no braking. I got down the driveway and realized it before I even got on the road. Back in the Barn.

All that's left to replace is the Calipers. Knowing that it makes no sense to go stock at $140 a caliper X 4ea. = $560. The Turner kit is $695ish..

Edited September 11 by aardvark

[Gunslinger]

It’s correct that Studebaker used no proportioning valve…they used a distribution block…performed the same function.  

[aardvark]

Gun, thanks.

That's one thing I haven't replaced.  I can see when bleeding the system that the rears don't spew the same amount of fluid as the fronts, so it tells me the Proportioning Valve IS working  The 70/30 balance (or whatever the number is) seems to be working. During a ''bleed'' there is much more fluid coming out of the fronts.

The front calipers weren't rebuilt, All I did to em was to get the Pistons in them freed up (or so I thought). That said, I still suspect the Calipers are not moving freely.

 

[Nelson]

I haven’t read everything here so maybe this was mentioned. The Dunlop calipers have a built in stop to keep the pad backing plate from hitting the rotor when the pad it close to gone. The experience is what appears to be ample braking until you really need it then you don’t get what you are wanting. The cure is new pads.

Also, how did you squeeze the pistons in a vise without damaging the center pin that the pad slides onto?

[AG-R3]

On 9/12/2024 at 1:40 AM, aardvark said:

Gun, thanks.

That's one thing I haven't replaced.  I can see when bleeding the system that the rears don't spew the same amount of fluid as the fronts, so it tells me the Proportioning Valve IS working  The 70/30 balance (or whatever the number is) seems to be working. During a ''bleed'' there is much more fluid coming out of the fronts.

The front calipers weren't rebuilt, All I did to em was to get the Pistons in them freed up (or so I thought). That said, I still suspect the Calipers are not moving freely.

 

Can you send a picture of what is going on?  You do not have calipers.  The dunlop system is an iron bridge with 2 piston assemblies for each wheel.  The only things that move are the pistons. 

[mfg]

On 9/11/2024 at 7:39 PM, Gunslinger said:

It’s correct that Studebaker used no proportioning valve…they used a distribution block…performed the same function.  

Just to be clear … The distribution block (or brake line union) in the original Stude Avanti brake system simply directed the brake fluid into the (front / rear) brake lines… It did not in any way proportion the amount of brake pressure front to rear.

[mfg]

Studebaker ‘proportioned’ the Avanti brake system, front to rear, in two ways….

1) By using a non self energizing type of rear brake…. and…2) Dialing in the internal diameter of the rear brake cylinders.

[Dwight FitzSimons]

On 9/27/2024 at 8:05 AM, Nelson said:

I haven’t read everything here so maybe this was mentioned. The Dunlop calipers have a built in stop to keep the pad backing plate from hitting the rotor when the pad it close to gone. The experience is what appears to be ample braking until you really need it then you don’t get what you are wanting. The cure is new pads.

Also, how did you squeeze the pistons in a vise without damaging the center pin that the pad slides onto?

On my '64 the Dunlop disc brakes lost all braking power when the pads were worn down to about 1/3 of the original material remaining.  This is with new rotors; with thinner rotors you would get even less wear out of your pads.  That is a "gotcha" with the Bendix/Dunlop disc brakes -- don't let the pads get below 1/2 of the remaining material unless you want a rude surprise.

 I had to remove my cylinders from the car to get the pistons to retract so I could install new pads.  I then used a C clamp with a few washers over the center pin on the piston so it wouldn't get damaged.  Make sure the C clamp is centered and slowly tighten the C clamp until the piston is retracted to the bottom of the cylinder.  You'll have to bleed your brakes afterwards.

--Dwight