Overweight Avanti!

[mfg]

All else being equal, the difference in weight between an R1 equipped 1963 Studebaker Avanti, and an R2 powered model is approx .......?...... lbs.

1) 35....2) 55......3) 67.....or.....4) 75

[Stacey]

Going to guess at #2 55 lbs

[64studeavanti]

According to the production data, 55 lbs is correct. This assumes R1 equipped with 3 spd and R2 equipped with 4 spd.

 

In order to correctly answer this question, the difference in weight between 3 spd and 4 spd needs to be known.

Edited March 22, 2022 by 64studeavanti

[pantera928]

And how much horsepower was gained for this 55 pound weight increase?

[mfg]

4 hours ago, Stacey said:

Going to guess at #2 55 lbs

And 55 lbs. is Correct!

[mfg]

4 hours ago, 64studeavanti said:

According to the production data, 55 lbs is correct. This assumes R1 equipped with 3 spd and R2 equipped with 4 spd.

 

In order to correctly answer this question, the difference in weight between 3 spd and 4 spd needs to be known.

Good point!.......However, assuming both the R1 and R2 models were equipped with four speed transmissions, (or Powershift automatics for that matter), and, as stated, all else equal, I can see the 55 lb. difference being the additional weight of the Paxton supercharger and associated mounting hardware.

[64studeavanti]

Not correct. As I pointed out, the base R1 has 3 spd and the base R2 has 4spd. You must account for the difference in weight!

Edited March 23, 2022 by 64studeavanti

[regnalbob]

8 hours ago, 64studeavanti said:

Not correct. As I pointed out, the base R1 has 3 spd and the base R2 has 4spd. You must account for the difference in weight!

The 1964 registration data from Studebaker shows the 4 speed weighs 5 lbs less than the 3 speed.

[64studeavanti]

Hard to believe that t10 4spd weighs less than t86 3spd with no o/d.  After all, it is in the larger t85 case and has 1 extra forward gear as well as reverse in the tail shaft. 

[mfg]

2 hours ago, 64studeavanti said:

Hard to believe that t10 4spd weighs less than t86 3spd with no o/d.  After all, it is in the larger t85 case and has 1 extra forward gear as well as reverse in the tail shaft. 

I agree, that cast iron T-85 case and big gears are quite heavy, and even with its aluminum extension housing I would have bet the T-10 would be heavier than a non-overdrive T-86.

[mfg]

11 hours ago, 64studeavanti said:

Not correct. As I pointed out, the base R1 has 3 spd and the base R2 has 4spd. You must account for the difference in weight!

I don't believe you're following what I'm saying........Picture this!.........

Two 1963 Avantis side by side...both equipped EXACTLY the same, including each having four speed transmissions.....Only difference between these two Avantis is one is powered by an R1 engine...the other an R2 engine.

Wouldn't you agree the only reason the R2 powered Avanti will be heavier than its R1 brother is the extra weight of the supercharger equipment?

And that extra weight MAY amount to around 55 lbs ?

[64studeavanti]

The 55 pounds is comparing R1 equipped with T86 and R2 equipped with T10. I seriously doubt both transmissions weigh the same. 

Therefore, the difference is less than 55 lbs!

[mfg]

1 minute ago, 64studeavanti said:

The 55 pounds is comparing R1 equipped with T86 and R2 equipped with T10. I seriously doubt both transmissions weigh the same. 

Therefore, the difference is less than 55 lbs!

Well, I did say 'approx'!......Not to be difficult here, but I really think you're confusing the issue by considering the T-86 vs. T-10 weights.

And, believe it or not, I DO understand what you're saying!......If we have to agree to disagree here that's OK.....I do appreciate your input!...Ed

[64studeavanti]

Not confusing the issue. You stated similary equipped. The 55 lb difference cited from the production data clearly compares std R1 (3 spd) with std R2 (4 spd). So, unless the T86 and T10 are the same weight, 55 lbs is not the correct answer to your question.

[Dwight FitzSimons]

I would interpret "similarly equipped" to mean that both the R1 and R2 cars are 4-speeds.  I wouldn't consider a T-10 and a T-86 to be similar.

Also, in science and engineering we change only one variable (the engine) at a time if we are investigating that variable.  All else is kept the same.

--Dwight

[mfg]

5 hours ago, Dwight FitzSimons said:

I would interpret "similarly equipped" to mean that both the R1 and R2 cars are 4-speeds.  I wouldn't consider a T-10 and a T-86 to be similar.

Also, in science and engineering we change only one variable (the engine) at a time if we are investigating that variable.  All else is kept the same.

--Dwight

Thank you Dwight!....You explained it much better than I could have!

[64studeavanti]

So, what is the verdict? Do you finally agree that a 55 lb difference is incorrect?

[mfg]

59 minutes ago, 64studeavanti said:

So, what is the verdict? Do you finally agree that a 55 lb difference is incorrect?

My verdict is: people should not add language to a posted trivia question.

"Similary equipped" was your wording not mine...

And 'approx 55 lbs' is indeed the correct answer to this trivia question.

 

[64studeavanti]

How is similarly equipped different from "all else being equal".

Just for the record, which of the following do you disagree with:

T86 is standard on R1.

T10 is standard on R2.

Shipping weight for R1 is 3195 lbs.

Shipping weight for R2 is 3250 lbs.

It is unlikely that T86 weighs the same as T10. (FWIW, internet sources indicate that T86 weighs 75 lbs and T10 weighs about 100 lbs. I have been unable to independently verify these weights.)

[mfg]

10 minutes ago, 64studeavanti said:

How is similarly equipped different from "all else being equal".

Just for the record, which of the following do you disagree with:

T86 is standard on R1.

T10 is standard on R2.

Shipping weight for R1 is 3195 lbs.

Shipping weight for R2 is 3250 lbs.

It is unlikely that T86 weighs the same as T10. (FWIW, internet sources indicate that T86 weighs 75 lbs and T10 weighs about 100 lbs. I have been unable to independently verify these weights.)

Are you saying that you do not understand the difference in meaning between the word 'similar' and the word 'equal'?  

[mfg]

18 hours ago, regnalbob said:

The 1964 registration data from Studebaker shows the 4 speed weighs 5 lbs less than the 3 speed.

Wrong Bob!...64studeavanti indicates his internet sources state the T-10 weighs about 100 lbs, whereas the T-86 comes in around 75 lbs.

[64studeavanti]

Bob may be referring to the Richmond Super T10, which has an aluminum case. Internet sources indicate that the Richmond transmission weighs 70 lbs.

Otherwise, we may be comparing T86 O/D.

[64studeavanti]

Is not equal a stronger description than similar?

[mfg]

23 minutes ago, 64studeavanti said:

Bob may be referring to the Richmond Super T10, which has an aluminum case. Internet sources indicate that the Richmond transmission weighs 70 lbs.

Otherwise, we may be comparing T86 O/D.

Bob mentions Studebaker registration data in his post...I highly doubt Studebaker was referring to the Richmond T-10.

[mfg]

25 minutes ago, 64studeavanti said:

Is not equal a stronger description than similar?

No, it's not.