Odd Avanti!

[mfg]

The only Studebaker Avanti factory built with a solid ('64 style) 1963 'Avanti Metallic Red' vinyl interior (no fawn) yet still having the 1963 type vacuum gauge and 'wing type' console knobs was # ......?....

1) EX 2945.....2) 63R1009.....3)R5653......or 4) No such Avanti was built

Edited July 13, 2019 by mfg

[mfg]

No thoughts about this?

[mfg]

UNCLE?

[brad]

No clue, but it sure sounds pretty!

 

[mfg]

55 minutes ago, brad said:

No clue, but it sure sounds pretty!

 

ANSWER....Actually Brad you may have worked on this one....It's EX2946....(R5653).... Engine# EX2123....Although the above description is its 1981 configuration....By the time it got to you the interior may have 'morphed'!!

[brad]

Supposed to be gold with red interior. Came to me white under the hood, and orange interior. I haven't started on it. It's in the Que sometime down the line. 

[mfg]

23 hours ago, brad said:

Supposed to be gold with red interior. Came to me white under the hood, and orange interior. I haven't started on it. It's in the Que sometime down the line. 

About that interior.....is it solid 1963 red vinyl metallic yet also have the '63 style 'wing' console controls?....also the woodgrain around the gauges & on the console?

Would you consider this 'EX' Avanti (as sold by Studebaker as R5653) a '63 or a '64?......Thanks in advance for your reply.

Also, the EX2123 engine (if the car still has it) is an R3 engine in all respects?.....299CI or 305CI?

Edited July 19, 2019 by mfg

[Gunslinger]

Model year wise it's whatever Studebaker said on the Manufactuer's Statement of Origin specifies.  Remember this was before federal regulations mandated a car model year be what is actually is rather than be flexible to when it was sold.

My understanding is the EX cars were brought up to '64 standards before being released for sale.  That would presumably include the four slot "wing" type control levers being changed to the wood grain style used on the transitional cars.  Why spend the time and especially the money to change the levers as well when the console plate was all that needed changing or having the wood grain surface added? 

[studegary]

I believe that cars of this nature (EX cars brought up to 1964 standards and sold as new during the 1964 model year) would be considered to be and titled as 1964s. 

[brad]

Everything about the car I have is early, and not many changes to later equipment. It has the "winged" console levers, and fawn background. The only deviation I see is drip rails. Supercharger is black. Air bonnet has no screen. All hand laid strips of fiberglass for the floors. Silkscreened non embossed supercharger side emblems, Midland-Ross frame tag. Early pedestal sway bar mounts. Eye bolt rear shock bottoms. Single screw under door handle inserts that have NO screw holes. Baffle under hood to hide the wiring is mounted flush to the hood opening lip that the weather seal rests on. That's all I have observed, as I haven't torn it down and it is off in the future for tear down and documentation, and restoration.

[mfg]

4 hours ago, brad said:

Everything about the car I have is early, and not many changes to later equipment. It has the "winged" console levers, and fawn background. The only deviation I see is drip rails. Supercharger is black. Air bonnet has no screen. All hand laid strips of fiberglass for the floors. Silkscreened non embossed supercharger side emblems, Midland-Ross frame tag. Early pedestal sway bar mounts. Eye bolt rear shock bottoms. Single screw under door handle inserts that have NO screw holes. Baffle under hood to hide the wiring is mounted flush to the hood opening lip that the weather seal rests on. That's all I have observed, as I haven't torn it down and it is off in the future for tear down and documentation, and restoration.

Thanks again for sharing your observations concerning the current status of R5653 Brad.

I became interested in this Avanti after I read a story about it in an early (1975) Avanti Newsletter......At the time R5653 was in Chicago and was for sale.

The car was inspected at the time by a noted Studebaker/Avanti expert.

HIS OBSERVATIONS..............An R3 and a strong one!........Mallory Rev-Pol ignition.......R3 rocker covers but no oil pan breather tube........Extra fuel pressure (Paxton) gauges under the dash.........................................

A/C setup in the console, the supercharger could be pulled in hot weather and an A/C compressor installed (Granatelli idea?).............Originally a round light car, however, it appeared that a "sabre saw" square light install was done later on...........'63 style interior, but with woodgrain panels and '63 style vac. gauge and wing type console knobs.....interior completely done in '63 Avanti red metallic vinyl, with no fawn trim at all.....Originally Avanti Gold Metallic exterior paint, but was at the time repainted AMC Red.

 

And....Richard Bennett eventually purchased R5653 to obtain its EX2123 engine for his Due Cento Avanti....The Due Cento originally had R3 (R5) serial # B-37.

 

Does this sound like the same Avanti Brad?.......Ed

[brad]

No, that sounds like the one being restored in the northwest. This was purchased also in Chicago last year, and the body has never been modified, and has round headlights. It is the gold one at the board of directors unveiling, and the air lift car.  

It's too hot to go out to the shop and check, but I believe the car here is 5652. not 5653. 

You really need to get John Hulls book to get this correct. I'm working on getting you a copy.

P.S. I did brave the heat, it is indeed 63R EX 5652

Edited July 20, 2019 by brad

[mfg]

OK Brad,...this (to me anyway) is becoming a very interesting trivia question!.....I have some info to share on R5652, the Avanti you'll eventually restore, which was also in Chicago in '75, and inspected and photographed by the same person.

HIS OBSERVATIONS........"Garden variety" R2 engine (EX2128) and four speed transmission...........Body of this Avanti (hand made) of fiberglass mat. (He felt that this Avanti was probably the very first made, although it appears now that Avanti R5651 has that honor.....The jury seems to be out on the status of R5650!

Getting back to R5652......'Avanti White' exterior with orange vinyl interior.......Hand sewn interior......Sunvisors not heat sealed seams but having sewn and riveted corners.......Fender trim "supercharged" plate not engraved, but is an artists lettering work on flat metal.......Very "shabby" underneath.

I appreciate you're going out in the high heat yesterday to get those details Brad.......I know what you mean about the "heat"...... It's presently 95' in my neck of the woods, and they're saying the temp will push past 100' today and tomorrow!!

Edited July 20, 2019 by mfg
Added "EX" engine serial number

[lschuc]

If you were at the AOAI meet last August in Tacoma, Washington, you would have received a prototype booklet written by John Hull that includes the attached chart showing all 10 prototype Avantis. 

Note that EX2942 was shipped to Paxton March 20, 1962 and was built as the R5 due Cento for Bonneville. 

EX2946 is the 8th prototype and the 1964 prototype that was sold as the last serial numbered Avanti as R5653.  It is still in the northwest under restoration and as the chart shows, was Avanti Gold with  fawn and orange interior, hand cut-out square headlight openings.  At some time in its previous life, this Avanti was repainted orange and received a solid red metallic  interior, possibly when the factory updated this car to 1964 style.

EX2945 is the 7th prototype and is the other New York Auto Show car, later receiving the production serial number R5652. It is waiting to be restored by Brad and originally was painted Avanti White  with a fawn and red interior.  At some time in the past, the interior was changed to fawn and orange, but not known if it was done by Studebaker before being re-serial numbered and sold, or done by a previous owner.

Both the 7th and 8th prototype cars used red & black speckled carpet, and both were the cars flown around the country for dealer introductions.

[mfg]

Lew, thank you for sharing that info!  (unfortunately, not everyone was able to attend the Tacoma meet)

Do we know which 'EX' Avanti was later re-serialed R5650?......That one seems to be a bit elusive so far!....Ed

[brad]

Someone....(Lew 🤫) told me it was supposed to be gold. I now know that's incorrect. Good.   It's been through the proverbial knothole backwards. But will be most interesting to bring back to as made condition. I have some Lacquer left over from the last one made (5643).

[mfg]

Nice photo Brad!...I didn't realize R5643 was, at some point in time, re-painted.

So, it looks like out of the ten 'EX' prototype Studebaker Avantis shown in Lew's info only FOUR of them were re-assigned new serial numbers by Studebaker in 1964?....Is this correct?

R5650....R5651.....R5652..and...R5653------ (EX2947....EX2944....EX2945...and....EX2946)

[lschuc]

I actually took the photo, showing the first, #1 and last, #9 of the production 1964 R3 Avantis.

Yes, according to the chart, only four of the EX prototype cars were re-assigned new serial numbers by Studebaker.

[mfg]

7 hours ago, lschuc said:

I actually took the photo, showing the first, #1 and last, #9 of the production 1964 R3 Avantis.

Yes, according to the chart, only four of the EX prototype cars were re-assigned new serial numbers by Studebaker.

OK!...So the BIG question is....What became of Studebaker Avantis R5650 and R5651?

I have no info on R5651.....R5650 was/is owned by a gentleman named John Bainbridge of Burnaby, British Columbia...that was in 1981.

It would be very interesting to receive some current information on these two "EX" Studebaker Avantis!!...mfg

[brad]

I usually give photo credit if someone else took the pics.  I was also at that photo shoot, and it's off my cell phone. It's not as good as yours Lew.

The question I have is what Gray is on the prototypes? Is it the same as the much later Avanti Gray?.

Ed, the white Avanti had been touched up several times before I did some small areas for touchup. The front did not match the back, and it took a lot of tinting and blending to make it good. Since lacquer isn't available at your neighborhood paint shops ANYWHERE, I used a few drops of fingernail lacquer to tint. 

 

Edited July 21, 2019 by brad

[mfg]

1 minute ago, brad said:

I usually give photo credit if someone else took the pics.  I was also at that photo shoot, and it's off my cell phone. The question I have is what Gray is on the prototypes? Is it the same as the much later Avanti Gray?. Ed, the white Avanti had been touched up several times before I did some small areas for touchup. The front did not match the back, and it took a lot of tinting and blending to make it good. Since lacquer isn't available at your neighborhood paint shops ANYWHERE, I used a few drops of fingernail lacquer to tint. 

 

Brad, I had the exact same thought on that "GRAY" specification, actually I just mentioned it in the "FIRST AVANTI" trivia question before I read your comment!!

and, nice job on R5643!....Ed

[mfg]

Concerning Lew's photo of the factory R3 Studebaker Avantis,......The side view 'stance' of a factory Avanti with an R3 under its hood is very similar to what the side view 'stance' of an R1 or R2 powered Avanti would be if its engine was removed alltogether!!

[studegary]

4 minutes ago, mfg said:

Concerning Lew's photo of the factory R3 Studebaker Avantis,......The side view 'stance' of a factory Avanti with an R3 under its hood is very similar to what the side view 'stance' of an R1 or R2 powered Avanti would be if its engine was removed alltogether!!

I "visited" 5643 many times over its early years.  I do not remember that stance (not saying it couldn't have been).  Do early pictures of that car exist for comparison?

[brad]

All factory R3s (Avanti) are shimmed higher to clear the pressure box. That makes it necessary to slot the holes where the bumper brackets go through the body in the lower grille area. 

[studegary]

10 minutes ago, brad said:

All factory R3s (Avanti) are shimmed higher to clear the pressure box. That makes it necessary to slot the holes where the bumper brackets go through the body in the lower grille area. 

Yes, I know that.  I didn't think that it made such an obvious difference in the appearance/stance.  It looks like an early Avanti II without its fender well filler pieces.