R3 heads

[brad]

Working on the 1st R3 (of the 9) in the shop today. Getting ready for a valve job

[Nelson]

Brad. Did you find anything wrong?

[mfg]

Wow! look at the size of those intake ports!

PS...does the contact area of the rocker arm really hang way to the side of the valve stem..instead of it being centered to the stem as on 'regular' Stude engines?

 

 

[Dwight FitzSimons]

9 hours ago, mfg said:

PS...does the contact area of the rocker arm really hang way to the side of the valve stem..instead of it being centered to the stem as on 'regular' Stude engines?

The valves on R3-R4 heads are set farther apart, but the rocker arm assembly is the same as regular Studebaker V8s.  Therefore, the rocker arm hits the valve stem off center.

--Dwight

 

 

[mfg]

Off center?.....

 Probably not good long term.

1 hour ago, Dwight FitzSimons said:

 

 

[Dwight FitzSimons]

14 hours ago, mfg said:

Off center?.....

 Probably not good long term.

 

I don't see how there could ever be any problem.  The force applied by the rocker is still exactly straight down the center-line of the valve stem.  So, wear on the valve guides will be the same as a regular Studebaker V8.

And, the rocker itself operates the same as a regular V8.  So, the wear on the rocker shaft will be the same.  The rocker arm itself is not going to break.

--Dwight

Edited December 14, 2023 by Dwight FitzSimons

[mfg]

1 hour ago, Dwight FitzSimons said:

I don't see how there could ever be any problem.  The force applied by the rocker is still exactly straight down the center-line of the valve stem.  So, wear on the valve guides will be the same as a regular Studebaker V8.

And, the rocker itself operates the same as a regular V8.  So, the wear on the rocker shaft will be the same.  The rocker arm itself is not going to break.

--Dwight

To me, it's kind of like striking a nail dead center...or striking it substantially off to one side...In hard, extended use, there just may be unusual wear issues.....

Of course, I could be wrong about that!

 

[Dwight FitzSimons]

1 hour ago, mfg said:

To me, it's kind of like striking a nail dead center...or striking it substantially off to one side...In hard, extended use, there just may be unusual wear issues.....

Of course, I could be wrong about that!

 

If your hammer strikes the nail at an angle that would bend the nail.  But, if the hammer strikes the nail with the force straight down the center-line of the nail's longitudinal axis then the nail will be driven straight into the wood, no matter what spot on the head of the hammer hits the head of the nail.  This is the exact same scenario, physics wise, as with the R3-R4's rocker pushing on the valve head.

If the above weren’t true then carpenters would have to hit each nail dead center every time.  And, we know that they don't.

--Dwight

[mfg]

21 minutes ago, Dwight FitzSimons said:

If your hammer strikes the nail at an angle that would bend the nail.  But, if the hammer strikes the nail with the force straight down the center-line of the nail's longitudinal axis then the nail will be driven straight into the wood, no matter what spot on the head of the hammer hits the head of the nail.  This is the exact same scenario, physics wise, as with the R3-R4's rocker pushing on the valve head.

If the above weren’t true then carpenters would have to hit each nail dead center every time.  And, we know that they don't.

--Dwight

OK Dwight..you've convinced me!

[brad]

The heads had a previous valve job with poor workmanship. The guides were beaten in and all bent on the top, the valves were ground so there was no margin left on the edges. I blended the pockets under the valves as there were sharp edges. Got new guides, and valves. The new guides will be bored out for bronze inserts, and positive stem seals installed. All seat and stem heights matched. Springs shimmed to proper installed height. The shortblock looked great. It was a combination of crappy gas, and poor workmanship that stuck three valves.

[Nelson]

Brad. It looks like these heads had the original type head gaskets judging from the print left on the head face. Are these available?

[mfg]

31 minutes ago, Nelson said:

Brad. It looks like these heads had the original type head gaskets judging from the print left on the head face. Are these available?

Another fellow with good eyes!!

[Dwight FitzSimons]

Does anyone have any suggestions for a source for R3 head gaskets (& intake, etc.)?  Maybe Dave Thibeault?  I have to pull my engine apart this winter.

--Dwight

[lschuc]

Dwight,   try Phil Harris at Fairborn Studebaker. He should have what you need.

 

[Nelson]

Dwight. Ted Harbit had a source for replacements so I assume that information was passed onto Phil when he picked up the business. Have the heads ever been off your R3?

[brad]

On 12/17/2023 at 6:11 PM, Nelson said:

Brad. It looks like these heads had the original type head gaskets judging from the print left on the head face. Are these available?

Yes, The only thing I like about them is the copper fire ring. The new graphite gaskets seal better. These had no crush or "give" to them, and someone forgot to use tacky copper spray.

[Nelson]

Talk about sealing head gaskets. Have you ever tried pulling the heads off a virgin R3. You would almost think those heads were welded on the block! R3 head gaskets have always been hard to find even in the mid seventies. I was told by Miles Walker to just grease the head gaskets instead of a sealant so you can actually reuse them. I’ve done this several times and haven’t had any problems. Evidently Joe Granatelli told Miles to start doing that as the gaskets were getting in short supply.

[Dwight FitzSimons]

On 12/19/2023 at 9:34 AM, Nelson said:

Dwight. Ted Harbit had a source for replacements so I assume that information was passed onto Phil when he picked up the business. Have the heads ever been off your R3?

Yes, B69 was rebuilt 25+ years ago at WCD Garage in Mass.  We have an excellent engine builder near here and I want to catch him before he retires.  So, this winter my project will be to pull the short block and take it to him to deal with the rod bearings.  Fortunately, I have  helper to help me with removal/installation of the short block.

As an aside, my preferences re transmissions have changed (with age) and I am tempted to replace the T-10 with a THM200-4R.  That would allow me to put in a 3:92 diff, have good acceleration, and still have reasonable RPMs at highway speeds.  Expensive, though.

--Dwight

[Nelson]

10 hours ago, Dwight FitzSimons said:

Yes, B69 was rebuilt 25+ years ago at WCD Garage in Mass.  We have an excellent engine builder near here and I want to catch him before he retires.  So, this winter my project will be to pull the short block and take it to him to deal with the rod bearings.  Fortunately, I have  helper to help me with removal/installation of the short block.

As an aside, my preferences re transmissions have changed (with age) and I am tempted to replace the T-10 with a THM200-4R.  That would allow me to put in a 3:92 diff, have good acceleration, and still have reasonable RPMs at highway speeds.  Expensive, though.

--Dwight

Sounds like a good plan to me. It is all personal preference as to stick or automatic but the overdrive just changes the entire driving experience to the positive. As for expensive: I figure the older you get the richer you are as you have less time to spend it. Just do the OD automatic and enjoy it. That 3.92 axle would be just about perfect.

[mfg]

Agree on the o/d automatic..I've been using an '83 Avanti for everyday back & forth to work for 29 years, and probably would have parked it long ago if it wasn't equipped with a 700R4!

( Just turned 600,000 miles..New Goodwrench 305 in 2010...700R4 and rear axle untouched excepting for fluid changes!)

Edited December 21, 2023 by mfg
added text

[Dwight FitzSimons]

12 hours ago, Nelson said:

Sounds like a good plan to me. It is all personal preference as to stick or automatic but the overdrive just changes the entire driving experience to the positive. As for expensive: I figure the older you get the richer you are as you have less time to spend it. Just do the OD automatic and enjoy it. That 3.92 axle would be just about perfect.

"I figure the older you get the richer you are as you have less time to spend it."

I like that attitude!  I'll go with it.

My brother has a 3:92 TT diff. I can buy, and there is an excellent transmission shop near here also.  I have a 200-4R and the trans. shop is willing to do the work.

Studebakers aren't short of power; they are short of gearing.

--Dwight

[Nelson]

On 12/21/2023 at 7:19 AM, mfg said:

Agree on the o/d automatic..I've been using an '83 Avanti for everyday back & forth to work for 29 years, and probably would have parked it long ago if it wasn't equipped with a 700R4!

( Just turned 600,000 miles..New Goodwrench 305 in 2010...700R4 and rear axle untouched excepting for fluid changes!)

Wow. That’s impressive. You are a die hard.🙂🙂

[brad]

R3SH320 is back together. 

[mfg]

Very, very impressive Brad!

[mfg]

On 12/22/2023 at 4:29 PM, Nelson said:

Wow. That’s impressive. You are a die hard.🙂🙂

Yes,  I probably am!.. I purchased Avanti RQB3655 from Lee Newman  (Newman/Altman) in January of 1994, and put it on road in October of that same year...Been driving it pretty much every day for last thirty years...

THEY SURE KNEW HOW TO BUILD 'EM!!