cutting wheel well openings

[drat]

To those that have opened up thier avanti 2 wheel wells to the original size when lowering. Did you do a strait cut and leave it? Or were you able to build an inner lip ? I am am getting ready to cut mine and wondering if there is anything someone can share about their experiences.

[Gunslinger]

It's nothing I've done or would care to do, but an option...though it would require more financial investment, would be to buy original design panels from Studebaker International or Nostalgic Motors. They already have the right radius cut to give the look you want.

I know that's major surgery compared to simply cutting the existing panels, and if you're good at cutting and finishing it wouldn't be necessary. But what if the cutting is hopelessly botched? You'll have to replace them in that case.

Regardless, I would think molding in an inner lip would be advisable. A sharp cut would be more prone to edge damage and probably less stiff allowing it to flex more than it should.

[Tony S]

Ever since I went to oversized tires with the mag 500 wheels I am experiencing tire rub with the wheels turned. I had taken out the spring spacer but put it back in and its still rubbing. I can see this in my future and am interested in the actual difference in the wheel openings. I have built and modified 3 glass cars in the recent past and wouldn't be shy about doing some cutting. As long as mat and resin are available you can repair any screw ups. The thing to remember is to layer the mat, no butt joints . After cutting you have to mould a lip around the opening even if it is only 1/2 inch otherwise it will be real weak . A good idea is to bend some 1/4 inch rod to fit and bond it into the lip for as long a piece as practical. This will help a lot. You can fill voids with kitty hair or tiger hair and finish with filler. A messy dirty but do able job.

[Kennie B.]

If I recall correctly, the earliest II's used bodies that were originally intended for Studebaker and had panels bonded into the wheel opennings in the modification process to reduce the rake of the body. That would have been a couple hundred bodies. How long was it before the fender molds were modified in the wheel openning by MFG?

I confess, I have never owned an Avanti, I just remember reading this tidbit somewhere. If it's true, depending on the vintage of the car, you may find a lip on the backside already in existance.

Good luck, Ken

[Gunslinger]

I've read that when Studebaker discontinued the Avanti and cancelled its contract with Molded Fiberglass that MFB was left with about 150 Avanti bodies. When Nate Altman approached Robert Morrison of MFB to supply him with bodies it's little wonder why Morrison was so willing to work with Nate.

That approximately 150 bodies would have (or did) supplied Avanti Motors for the first 2-3 years of production with only the filler piece required for the front wheel arch. At some point after that the front panels were modified and molded so no filler was needed. At exactly what point in production I don't know...whether it was an RQA or RQB series car. My 1970 is a fairly early RQB car and it had one front panel with the filler and one without when I purchased it. Paperwork that came with the car showed receipts for body repairs over the years so who knows if either front panel was still original?

I have seen records show Avanti Motors continued to use Studebaker body tags up to a certain point before discontinuing their use. It's a reasonable assumption these would have been on the leftover bodies MFB had but there's no indication whether it was only these bodies that used body tags or their use was continued until the supply of such tags ran out or Avanti Motors simply said their use was no longer required. The use of body ID plates had to incur at least some cost in installation and administrative record keeping, though no matter how small a cost probably made little sense to conservative minded businessmen running Avanti Motors.

[Tony S]

Anyone have a pix of the 2 body styles next to each other?

[J Boyle]

Try this....a 64 and a "II".

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?69253-Avanti-test-pics

I really don't see a huge difference in these shots.

You might ask over on the SDC forum, I'm sure someone with one of each could post some.

[Tony S]

I just went therough my copy of "AVANTI" and can't see any difference in the front openings. There is even an overlay of the 2 bodies in the book and the only difference is the older body is lower in the front suspension but the bodys look identical there. I did notice that my II sits a lot lower in the front than the ones in the photos. I may need to get a pair of springs before I do anything.

[Gunslinger]

There is a difference in front openings...the distance from the top of the body to the top of the wheel arch is greater in a "II". It can be difficult to get an accurate difference in stance so many years later. One car might be modified or one or both can have sagging springs, etc.

Sagging springs in any Stude-framed Avanti is not at all uncommon. I would go as far as to say every Avanti extant either is in need of new coil springs or has already had them replaced...at least once.

That Avanti II in the photo looks to me like it sits a bit higher than normal. Maybe the driveway has a slope not evident, the springs are new, a lighter than stock engine is installed...no way to know for sure.

[Kennie B.]

Try this....a 64 and a "II".

http://forum.studeba...vanti-test-pics

I really don't see a huge difference in these shots.

You might ask over on the SDC forum, I'm sure someone with one of each could post some.

I don't know about you but I can easily see a difference in the heighth from the top of the wheel arch to the top of the fender. To my eye, it really makes the II look a lot taller in the fender area.

[J Boyle]

I don't know about you but I can easily see a difference in the heighth from the top of the wheel arch to the top of the fender. To my eye, it really makes the II look a lot taller in the fender area.

Now that you pointed that out, I certainly agree.

In fact, you can see it from the head-on and tail (#s 2 & 4) shots too.

Edited March 10, 2013 by J Boyle

[GAWen]

Gentlemen, try going to this web site. The red 1964 is /was owned by Carl (tall fellow in blue shirt). Carl passed away about 3 years ago, I do not know what happened to his Avanti, i tried to buy it from him while he was still alive. The yellow Avanti II is my 1971 (RQB1600).

photobucket.com/user/pcf98/media/100_1952.jpg.html?filters[term]=Avanti&filters[primary]=images&sort=1&o=1175

[Tony S]

Looking at the green and gold cars you can definately see the wheel opening in the gold car is much higher in the fender than the green car. The distance from the top of the opening to the top of the fender looks like its about 3 inches shorter on the gold car

[adamderosa]

Several years ago George Dimitsas (Olympus Avanti Parts) was selling a front fender wheel opening piece for Avanti II's that would enlarge the opening to somewhere in between the Studebaker size and the Avanti II size. It was a fiberglass piece so the fender would have to be cut, modified, smoothed and painted but they were a nice option and they were flanged around the opening for strength. I don't know if these are still available but it might be worthwhile to give him a call.

[bigdaddy]

I personally like the '63/4 openings. If you decide to take on this project, I would definitely add a 3/4' lip to the opening. If not I would think that you would open yourself up to cracking of the glass around the wheel well, Good luck, Like my Dad used to say "you never make mistakes if you sit on your ++s!.

[Avanti83]

I personally like the '63/4 openings. If you decide to take on this project, I would definitely add a 3/4' lip to the opening. If not I would think that you would open yourself up to cracking of the glass around the wheel well, Good luck, Like my Dad used to say "you never make mistakes if you sit on your ++s!.

If you plan to do something like this either Photoshop the openings or print out several large pictures of the car and cut them up to see what the final appearance will be. You will be changing proportions of the fender to the opening size when you do this so it will look different than either parent.

Several pictures are much less expensive than not liking what you have after the mods.

The mods shouldn't be to difficult if you have some experience with fiberglass. You just keep glueing, filling and sanding till it's done.

Bob

Edited March 23, 2013 by Avanti83

[drat]

My 69 #rqa 0319 has the filler. You can feel the lip, and depending on where you measure from id say that 2 and a half to 3 inches is about right. Definitely I am going to look up Olympus avanti to see if they have those fender bits. That would certainly help things.

[Paul K.]

Both of my '74s had the filler panels. RQB 2156 and RQB 2165. Can't remember on my '76.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Paul K.

[PackardV8]

JMHO, but getting back the rake/stance is a worthy goal. Style is a matter of personal preference, but to my eyes, the 1963 is the one true Avanti and everything coming afterward was gilding the lily. That Studebaker, the Altmans, Blakes, Kellys, et al continued Avanti production we all are eternally in their debt, but most of what they did to the original design was questionable.

Even Studebaker and Loewy had to work within the pressures for annual model change for change's sake; 1964 square headlight bezels an improvement? I own a '63 Avanti customized by George Barris to be "the world's only 1965 Studebker Avanti." The owner met Lowey and got copies of the drawings of the proposed revisions submitted to Studebaker for 1965. With quad headlights, vinyl roof, flared fenders, it's not an improvement.

jack vines

Edited May 17, 2013 by PackardV8

[J Boyle]

Jack

I had my Avanti at a local show last weekend and someone mentioned your car and wondered if you still had it. It's good to hear you do.

[ron@crall.com]

Did you ever cut the fenders?

I just purchased 71 RQB-1703 and it appears to have fillers. I also own 63R-1025 and want to drop the body and cut the fenders on the 71. Any tips from anyone would be appreciated regarding both the body drop and the fender cut.

[Billy Shears]

've read that when Studebaker discontinued the Avanti and cancelled its contract with Molded Fiberglass that MFB was left with about 150 Avanti bodies. When Nate Altman approached Robert Morrison of MFB to supply him with bodies it's little wonder why Morrison was so willing to work with Nate.

That approximately 150 bodies would have (or did) supplied Avanti Motors for the first 2-3 years of production with only the filler piece required for the front wheel arch. At some point after that the front panels were modified and molded so no filler was needed. At exactly what point in production I don't know...whether it was an RQA or RQB series car. My 1970 is a fairly early RQB car and it had one front panel with the filler and one without when I purchased it. Paperwork that came with the car showed receipts for body repairs over the years so who knows if either front panel was still original?

I wasn't aware that Avanti Motors had ever stopped using the filler. They must have had a pretty fair number of the early style fenders on hand -- the '75 I sold Joe Beatty had the filler panels, so they were still using the original style fenders, with the filler, nearly a decade after the start of their production, and possibly a good while longer.

[Billy Shears]

Did you ever cut the fenders?

I just purchased 71 RQB-1703 and it appears to have fillers. I also own 63R-1025 and want to drop the body and cut the fenders on the 71. Any tips from anyone would be appreciated regarding both the body drop and the fender cut.

Before I sold my '75, and bought a '63, I was intending to do what you are now intending. Dan Booth gave me a template he can make -- it's a paper overlay he makes by tracing it out carefully over an original Studebaker Avanti fender. You tape it to your fender, lining the upper edge with the top of the fender, and the front and and back with those respective edges of the fender panel, and then use a marker to trace the outline of the wheel opening, which should coincide with where the edge of your filler panel is. Then you make your cut along the line you've made, and build up a rolled edge or lip to the opening you've enlarged, and prepare and paint your surface. I don't still have the template, as there was no need to modify the '63's fenders, obviously, but I'm sure if you call Dan at Nostalgic Motors, he could make you one, or if someone in your area has a Studebaker Avanti, you can get a similar tracing off that car.

[ron@crall.com]

Thank you Bill,

63R-1025 i sparked in the next building so using it to create a template was my intention. My history with fiberglass joints suggest that attempting to pop might be possible. I'll probably spend a few minutes doing that before tracing a cut line.

[GoldAvantiII]

Gents,

In June 2013 I was invited by The Henry Ford Museum's Transportation Guru, Matt Anderson thru Andy Beckman, to place my '71 Avanti II inside the display tent next to the museum's '63 Avanti. The Motor Muster (an annual car show featuring over 300 vehicles 1933-1976) is a big annual event held on the grounds of Greenfield Viallage in Dearborn, MI. The 50th anniv of the Avanti was being celebrated and they wanted the two cars together to show the transition from the original Avanti to the Avanti II. I had a great two days there. There are a lot of folks out there who actually know quite a bit about the history of the Avanti. You can just see the '63's whell lip showing just above my car in the photo. I'll send a second photo in my next posting. In that photo you can see a goo comparison of the two cars.