SBCA96
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Posts posted by SBCA96
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Now, I have to buy an old style grille to cover up the 2 rectangular missing sections, but it still looks better.
Perfect place to install fog lights.
Tom
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Was invited while at the Special Olympics car show in Lompoc to meet
up at JRs monthly show/cruise. Made it a looooong day, getting up at
6am to commute into work early, and then jet home to get the Avanti,
then off the other direction 30 miles to Santa Maria. On the way to
S.M. I stopped off at a gas station, and a group of kids on bikes, had
some kind words to say, "Oh My God, that car is soooo cool!"
Tom
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To those waiting for further details on this swap, here is the final
update. The drivers side front mounts were toasted, so I made up two
aluminum mounts. Here is a few pictures of the carnage :
Here is the 6061-T6 aluminum block I made up to anchor the seat. I had
to move out further then the factory rivots since the fiberglass was so
broken up around the hole.
Here is the block attached. I didnt bother with two mounting holes, I
split the difference. If I need to raise the seat, I can add washers
in between the seat track and seat bottom. Stainless screws, with a
zinc plated bolt.
This is the replacement inner rear seat mount, this is the one that was
completely GONE - nothing there but a through bolt with a big washer on
the underside of the car.
Drivers seat installed :
Here is the drivers and pass seats waiting to go up in the attic. You
can see how bleached the interior is from the sun. The underside color
is almost a match to the Camaro seats.
On to the passenger seat, removing the seat the two inner mounts broke
so I had to reattach the front plate, and I decided to replace the one
in the rear. Here is the front inner, I cut a square in the backside
to allow the plate to be removed.
This is the missing inner rear mount, it broke off - surprised?
Took the factory metal plate, punched out the rivots, and tapped the
hole for a 10-32 screw.
Used a drill bit by hand, and countersunk the hole for a flat head :
Plate installed :
With the front two, and remaining rear mount, I remounted the seat, &
marked the floor to tell me where to position the new aluminum mount.
Seats are in! I think it looks much better, & tonight I will be going
to a show/cruise in Santa Maria tonight, so I can see how they feel!
Tom
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WARNING : if you have dialup, go get a coffee .....or hit the [red]red X[/red]
We didnt win
I really thought my chances were good, even after Ihad surveyed the competition. We had 7 cars total in our catagory.
The one I was worried about, is the one that beat me. I got a LOT of
compliments including some closet Avanti enthusists. I barely woke
up on time, & had to set up the display. All that work.
Some guyfrom out of town with a VERY spartan 48 Stude truck won. I am not
into the trucks at all, so it really didnt interest me much. Obviously
the judges liked it. He did have a LOT of money into it, to make it
look so spartan. I took a lot of pictures, some very nice cars there.
(A few years ago)
(Last year)
Last year, the Avanti in the above previous state, the winner was a
white early 60's Lark wagon. I thought, that with all the hard work,
not too mention money, that I sunk into it - I would win. I KNOW its
supposed to be fun, and I did have fun .. I guess I am just bummed out
and too sun burned. I got a LOT of flyers for upcoming car shows, my
wife said they werent handing them out to EVERY car, so thats good. I
will try to make them if I can. Those of you that have been following
along with this saga, know that my Avanti probably has something else
up its "sleeve" - to break.
I guess I need to realize, that the Avanti design strikes an emotional
cord in people right away. I heard comments that were completely polar
in opinion. One person would say, "Oh WOW! An Avanti!", and the next
woman would say, "Thats sooooo ugly!".
The brakes drew a LOT of interest, and not just from the Stude crowd.
There was a 65 Mustang notchback all setup with roll cage, etc, he had
surprisingly small brakes on it, they didnt look much bigger then 11".
I got some ideas for headlights. I am definately dumping the halogens
on the car now, for something better. This year (unless I get going
on the engine/trans) I plan on doing the details. Intall the '97 Z28
Camaro leather front seats, maybe getting them all recovered to match.
Redo the dash, and gauges, the rear package shelf, finish fixing the
paint, etc. I also NEED a new exhaust. Silvertone? Maybe a local
shop to do a full stainless mandrel bent?
I had one guy come up to look at the car, to drop off a flyer, that
was so excited about it, that I thought he would wet himself! He said
that the two most impressive cars were the 63 Corvette, and 63 Avanti.
He loved the choice in rims, and the stance. There was a 70 Avanti II
parked right next to me, & you could really see how much they raised
it up in the front.
Got the car "set" and the display anchored :
The competition :
View down the other path :
Over the shoulder shot :
WAY too early on a Saturday for the wife :
Row behind ours :
This won the Camaro catagory :
The Chevy catagory :
My pick for "Peoples Choice" (didnt win
) :
More Camaros (the dark green's headlights are cool) :
This Camaro has my brakes (well with the $$$Baer$$$ name
) : 
The Corvettes :
The trophys (that I didnt win
) :
Hot rods :
This won an award, it was sooooooo nice! :
Some more shoeboxes :
Road Race Mustang :
Bullitt Mustang :
A WHOLE line of Thunderbirds :
Couple shots for you oldtimers (not sure why the Camaro was there) :
Whats with the trucks? :
Can you believe that THIS won the "Daily Driver" award (yah sure):
Here is the truck that won the Studebaker Catagory, dont get me wrong
its nice, but .... eh :
Back to the Avanti for a few shots :
Difference in height between the two Avantis, mine has two spacers on
the front body mount, the 1970 has 8 on them! :
Tom
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I have no idea on the bias ply, though I would never use them on a daily
driven car. One thing that people tend to justify using outdated technology
is that "it worked before, so why switch?" The problem with that is that all
the OTHER cars on the road can outstop and out handle you. So if the car
in front of you can stop in 10 feet shorter distance - what happens when
they come to a complete stop suddenly?
Radial tuned is mostly in the shocks, not a lot changed in the 70's when the
industry changed over to radial tires. If you look at the 1995 Impala SS
front suspension, compared to the 1965 Impala, its almost identical. The
95 Impala uses 17 x 9 wheels, and P255/50ZR-17 tires. The only difference
between the two front suspensions is the shock technology. Spring rates
might have been changed a little also.
Not knocking keeping a car stock, just pointing out that there isnt really a
"Radial Tuned" suspension .. thats kinda buzz word for salesmen.
Tom
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Wow .. good question. I didnt realize a repro was available. I guess it all
depends HOW bad your factory wiring is. Mine (from what I have seen) is
all in good shape. I have heard to check it from time to time around the
hood latches though.
Tom
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Thanks, the rims are 03/04 Mustang Cobra wheels. To fit a Studebaker, I could not
use the factory wheels because they are 9 inchs wide. A company in Canoga Park,
AFS Wheels makes an 8 inch wide version with an inch off the factory backspacing
of 6 inchs, thats 5 inch backspacing. This still will not work on a Studebaker without
a 1/4 to 1/2 spacer. You may have seen my article in Avanti Magazine, with the swap
to Mustang Cobra 13 inch brakes (first with GT brakes). The rotor in my setup is in
between the hub and the wheel and acts like just over 1/4 inch spacer. See issue
133 or the posted thread on this forum for more details.
Avanti Motors uses a new Mustang chassis for the new car, so they can run any of
the Mustang wheels available. Their original prototype had these ugly wheels on it:
Here is the 2006 Mustang the new Avanti is built on : GT shown
here is the upcoming 2007 Mustang Cobra :
Tom
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OK .. I just took out my front seat, to finally figure out WHY its a
"rocking" chair. I found it only had ONE bolt located in a factory
captured nut, and the other three mounts where all broken and poorly
repaired. I am faced with a decision, do I spend the time to fab new
mounting brackets to put the factory seats back in (that I hate), or
do I just go ahead and mount the '97 Camaro seats I bought already?
Yah .. I am definately leaning toward the second option. I have a bad
back, and so just short drives create hours of pain on arrival when I
drive the Avanti. The Camaro seats seem to fit OK, the rails are the
same distance apart as the Avanti seats, but I will have to remove the
front built up fiberglass hump that the front mount was in. Someone
already cut a bunch of holes in it, weakening it a lot. I'm surprised
that Studebaker just rivoted metal to the fiberglass & called it good.
The rear outer mount has a steel plate, but the other three (the ones
that broke) did not. Oh, and in the process of trial fitting, I tore
my freshly dyed carpet .. thats 4 dollars worth of dye wasted!
I started the ground work for the swap. After thinking about it more,
I realized that there was no real reason to use the power seat part of
the Camaro seat, other then its "neato-ness". It also made the seat
sit TOO high up in the car. Looked stupid. I checked the distance
between the mounting holes on the stock seat, and it looked like they
would fit directly onto the Camaro seats. It was very close, but not
exact. I figured that considering how flimsy the stock setup was, I
could get away with notching the outside of the rails, and then bolt
the rail to the mount "capturing" the rail between the bolts. If it
was met with enough force to pull the rail out from between the bolts,
they it would break out the fiberglass holding the rail to the floor :
Front of seats :
Back of seats :
Distance between Camaro seat tracks :
Distance between Avanti seat tracks :
Notched rail end :
In process rail notching by Dremel :
Bolted up rail :
Seat in the car :
Tom
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Well, Avanti has popped up in Mexico, so we can all field questions
about Avantis being built in Canada AND Mexico now. They built a new
production facility thats a 10,000 square foot show room, and a 65,000
sq ft production building. The prototype still has my rim suggestion
though still no thank you. Just as long as its known, THEY copied me,
I didnt copy THEM! I had looked for over a decade for rims that really
complimented the Avanti design, usually when you offer help, you get a
thank you. Especially since the change really brings the car together.
Just another sign that Corporations just dont care. I shouldnt be
surprised.
Tom
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Certain rims look good on certain cars, I dont know how those Cragars will
look on an Avanti. Go through some old Turning Wheels, and look at some
of the Meet pictures. Cragars, to me, look too "Muscle Car", which an Avanti
is not. The Avanti looks very European. I think that one of the best stock
Avanti designs were the Anniversary Edition wheels. They were "BBS" with
a black face, and polished rim. They should compliment a white car too.
Though rim choice is a personal opinion thing, so what I think is different
from what you or someone else will think. Just my two cents.
Tom
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The rims I got are made by AFS Wheels in Canoga Park, Ca. They are knockoffs of
the 2003 Cobra wheel. The factory wheel has a 6 inch back spacing, and its 9 inches
wide. The knock off wheel is a special made 8 inch wide version, which they took
the inch off the backspacing to keep the outside the same face. The result is 5.02.
I read that the Avanti can fit up too a riim with a 4.5 backspacing, & then saw some
clues that a 4.75 might fit. My disc setup puts the rotor in between the hub and the
wheel, acting like a .27 spacer, which makes a 4.75 backspacing. So it fits. I would
recommend on a factory car using the Steeltech disc setup, which I was told by Dave
would out the wheel out further, requiring more backspacing to keep the wheel away
from the fender. You have to be MORE careful on Avanti IIs with the clearance at
the front of the tire at full lock - on a bump! The tires tend to hit the fender! On a
steel car this is just noisy, on a fiberglass car it causes cracks.
Be careful of getting trendy wheel designs, I went for a design that complimented
the original hubcap. So far some that didnt like it at first have recently admitted it
has grown on them.
More helpful info here:
http://patriot.net/~jonroq/rjtechx.html#Wheels
Tom
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As much as that shelf at the firewall looks like a GREAT place to
store tools while doing a repair on your Avanti, AVOID the temptation
to do this!! Tonight, I spent about an hour trying to get my hood
open because something (still dont know what) was in the way of the
drivers side hood latch releasing!! I got the pass side to release
and grabbed the rod only to have it pull out while I was pulling on
it!! I was able to lasso the latch with a coat hanger, and pull with
all my might - finally whatever was in the way ... moved. I oiled
everything, and the latches work better then they ever have. I just
thought it was worth sharing .. I had visions of missing the Show on
Saturday because I couldnt open my hood!!
Tom
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A fair price is one that both the seller and buyer walk away feeling good about.
I have seen fixers for about 8000, and heard of some nice ones going on Ebay
for in the 20k range. I remember a friend of mine who had a 68 Mustang GT500
Cobra told me (in regards to value) - "its only worth as much as someone will
pay for it". That sums it up nicely.
Challenges are the same as any older vehicle, the parts availablity is somewhat
better then most, though some feel the cost is too high. It all depends on your
own personal opinion. Go to Studebaker International, and check out some of
the sections of their catalog for price ideas.
http://www.studebaker-intl.com/
Scroll to the bottom for PDFs of their catalog:
http://www.studebaker-intl.com/orders.html
A good mechanic is hard to find, doesnt matter if its a Ferrari, a Toyota Camry,
or a 64 Studebaker Avanti.
Tom
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Here is a picture of the finished result :
Tom
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After getting the rechromed bumpers on the Avanti, and with the Cobra
brakes replacing the leaking old stockers .. I thought I would return
to Hope Ranch for some new shots. After getting the car, & polishing
out the laquer paint, I drove to Hope Ranch, and took a few shots with
the Pacific Ocean in the background. Interestingly enough, a similar
event happened. 10 years ago a woman came up & asked me what it was,
last Friday, I had a woman do the same thing. No, not the same woman.
10 years ago ...
Driving around on Friday I got quite a few looks, and with the updated
wheels, mirrors, and wheels - people had a hard time believing it was
a 43 year old car, and a Studebaker!! At my house, I had to kids on
bikes come up and tell me just how incredibly cool it was, & my buddy
Mike's son (freshman in H.S.) who showed up to check out the car, said
it was a coolest looking car he had ever seen. Quite the compliment
from a car nut kid!
Last Friday ....
Hope you enjoy seeing these, as much as I did taking them. Once I get
the exhaust leaks fixed, I will be able to drive the car without the
feeling of passing out. It is a relaxing drive right now!
Tom
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Dang ... I REALLY should have documented this, I as JUST finished fixing mine.
My Avanti had the right parts when I got it, but the return line started to leak
about 7 years ago, so I pluged it it the fuel pump. The lines to the carb from
the pump are 5/16 flare, the t-block at the pump has an 1/8 male pipe into the
pump, and an 1/8 female opposite of that, with an 1/8 female facing up toward
the carb. You need an 1/8 pipe to 5/16 flare fitting for that connection. On the
return line hole directly opposite of the male pipe that screws into the pump, I
had LOST the original fitting. So I bought an 1/8 to 1/4 flare 90 degree angle,
and a 1/4 flare hose bib. Look around for the hose bib, the one I got was a
"Brass-Tite" brand 1/4 inverted flare (IF) to 1/4 hose. Most that I found didnt
have a long enough tube for the hose, part number 43287 did. Now comes a
difficult part. The hole in the hose bib is way too large, the Avanti requires a
metered hole, the way I got around this was drilling a 1/4 hole in the threaded
end of the hose bib, and then pressing some 1/4 brass stock into the hole. I
than drilled a .050 hole through the pressed in brass. Than you use teflon tape
on the hose bib when you screw it into the 90 angle, normally you dont use on
a flare fitting, but when you put the brass plug in, you will remove the flare tip.
Make sure you use telfon tape on ALL pipe connections. My .060 drill wouldnt
fit in my drill, so at 11 o'clock at night, I just drilled it with the smallest drill that
would fit in my drill, I ended up with approx a .090 hole, then I used a center
punch to close up the hole by distorting the material around the hole, got it down
to about an .080 hole. Car runs fine, so I think I am OK.
Tom
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Welcome to the Forum.
I would suggest taking it apart, and then greasing/oiling everything before you
replace anything. Inspect the rollers and assorted guides. With cars this old,
the lubrication that the factory put on dried up YEARS ago. I know that my '93
Camaro's drivers window started to not want to roll back up, after getting some
lube on the parts, it works fine again - 227,000 miles.
Tom
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I recently purchased a 79 Avanti that came with the additional front bumper, commonly referred to as "cow catcher" I am curious to know:
- what production years was this bumper installed on the cars?
Mid 70's, my dads 78 had it also, someone else might have exact info.
- was it optional equipment?No, it was mandatory.
- what was the reason they were added on?You can probably thank Ralph Nader for that, the same guy that had the convertible
taken off the market in the U.S.. Its to protect us from ourselves. The Avanti bumpers
are like n1pples on a guy - just for show. They wont do a lot in a crash, and it was
decided that adding the second bumper (a 5 mph) one, would help. Since they had
raised the front on the Avanti II, they just added it under the stock one, since it was
now higher then designed. So in short - added to meet a 5 mph crash requirement.
Tom
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The kit sounds cool ... its always nice to simplify things a bit.
Sounds like the internal regulator went ... easy fix.
Tom
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Sounds interesting. I will be curious to see how it all comes together in the car. I have decided to use the
hydraulic clutch assembly. I like how easy the clutch in my buddies '02 Camaro SS works in comparison to
the one in my Avanti (two legger!). This project is down the road a ways, I bought the 97 Camaro trans
because the price was just too good to pass up. Even if I end up not being able to use it, I will be able to
resell it for twice what I paid. I had to move some things around in the garage tonight, so the T56 got even
MORE buried then it was! Oh well. Brakes were the first on my list, whats the point in having a road race
transmission if your brakes fade after turn two?
Tom
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Nels,
Did you use the hydraulic clutch assembly? What did you use for a flywheel? I think
that there are a few people that would be interested in your findings. I need to send
an Email to Fairborn and find out if he gave up on the project, I havent heard anything
in months now.
Tom
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I hear yah on the not knowing about other options, thats why I suggest research, research, research.
Its unfortunate that Turning Wheels pushes the Turner setup so much, they completely ignore Steeltech,
which has been around since the 80's. I would bet that you will notice an improvement over the worn
out factory brakes, but they are actually pretty good (for one or two stops). Once you start going thru
the 'turns', and using the brakes a lot, heat will build up and fade will start. The Turner setup will give a
good amount of stopping power, but the mounting surface is same as stock. That will limit you to a MAX
of 4.75 backspacing wheel. When you hit this magic number, you WILL have rubbing issues at FULL lock.
As I mentioned, FULL lock RARELY happens in normal driving, usually in parking lots or parallel parking.
The RIM will let you know when its happening, and with aluminum wheels - the RIM loses the battle. Since
you already have the Turner front, you might as well go with the Turner rear - I believe its a matched set.
With MAX backspacing, its ALWAYS best to measure yourself, as cars can differ some, and its also very
possible that the Turner wheel mounting surface isnt EXACTLY at the factory location, it COULD be less,
which would reduce the 4.75 MAX dimension. Dave told me that the Steeltech setup he makes is over a
1/4 inch further out, which will allow more wheel backspacing.
As for the audio question, I forgot to mention that putting speakers on the rear deck is pretty normal. You
might also look into something I JUST thought of, maybe mounting the head unit IN the center speaker
hole, and leaving the factory unit in the dash? The speaker grill could be hinged? Probably off the wall,
but I have known the Impala SS guys will remove the passenger side air bag on the top of the dash, and
then add a Playstation underneath!
Tom
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Are there any down sides to using wider tires on the rear end than the front? I am working a complete rebuild of a 1964 Avanti, R1, auto, and want to put wider tires on it. The front, however, is a problem due to there not being enough clearance for wider tires with the wheel turned to full stop.
Any suggestions?
The only drawback is that you can not rotate the tires. I am running 17 x 8 wheels with 245/45
tires on my 63 Avanti. How wide did you want to go? I know that a 7 inch wide rim will fit fine
with the standard offset, but the ones I bought are a 5.02 offset which with the factory Avanti
brakes would require a 1/4 spacer to fit. This is one reason why I designed my own brake set
up to where the rotor acts like a spacer for the wheel. The full lock condition is a bummer, I
have found that the 17 in rim will hit the upper outer front bushing on a full RIGHT lock, but
not on a left? Wierd. Studebaker obviously wasnt concerned with this problem with the very
undersized 4.5 wide stock and 5 inch wide Avanti wheels. The Stude suspension turns quite
sharp, so reducing the amount the wheel turns wouldnt be much of an issue. I am looking into
how to make an adjustable steering stop for Studebakers. In driving the car with the 17 x 8s
on it, the ONLY time its hit the upper arm is backing up out of a parking spot, never on the road.
I know I could have fit the 17 x 9 in the rear, but the 17 x 8 is plenty of tire, and I can rotate.
Also, I want to put in a modern audio system. Nothing to fancy, but I want to put a CD player in the dash or at the very least an AM/FM radio so that I can use an iPod with the FM transmitter.I am just going to cut my dash to put in a standard CD/MP3 radio, but I havent done the
measurements yet, brakes were the first on my list.
I've put the Turner discs in the front. I'm thinking about discs in the back and will definitely be replacing the two piece axle shafts with the one piece variety.Too bad you went Turner, Steeltech's 12 inch doesnt require that spacer thing, and its actually
much better then the stock Stude. Turners uses too many special parts, and doesnt buy you
that much over stock. Even the replacement late 60's Ford rotors are over 100 a piece! Also
Dave said that the 12" rotor will move the wheel mating surface out over a 1/4 from Stude, so
the the rims I bought from AFS would bolt right up. This is what I planned on doing before I got
sued by the Record Industry and couldnt afford the Steeltech brakes. Then I made these :
13 inch front disc/2 piston calipers, and 11 inch disc rear single piston. (As I mentioned before
will allow the use of front 14 inch rotors with 6 piston calipers.)
Tom
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While the new Ford 6 speed might sound great on the table, practically wise, its going
to be quite expensive for a while. GM, however, has been using the T56 6 speed since
the early 90's, so there is a LOT of used transmissions out there. I picked up a 97 one,
for my 63. I am currently "working" with Fairborn Studebaker in getting a kit developed.
If you have been following my Cobra brake articles, you can see that my attention has
been directed toward getting the car to STOP well first. Next will be steering, and then
I will be getting into the 6 speed swap. I have also been in contact with a person back
east who wants to also do the GM T56 swap when it becomes available. If Fairborn
decides they dont want to do it, then like you, I plan to just do it myself. There is also
a possibility that McLeod might finally step up to the plate now that Red has been let go
by the new owners (B&M). The only Avanti that I know of with a 6 spd, is an Avanti II
which of course has the GM engine.
Welcome to the forum!
Tom
Avanti Frame
in 1963-64 Avanti
Posted
There is a guy on the forum that is making new frames for Avantis that will
use Corvette front and Viper rear suspensions. If those parts were got from
used sources, then if might be close to wht you will spend for a used frame,
repair costs for it, and then rebuilding of the entire suspension.
I just wish that he had just used Corvette front AND rear suspension. Viper
stuff isnt as common as Vette.
Tom