Gunslinger
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Posts posted by Gunslinger
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I believe I read they were also used on the 63 Corvette???
Yep...6.70-15 were factory tires on Corvettes from '53 through '64.
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Unless you're looking for authenticity, try a compact spare tire used on newer cars...fits in the compartment with room to spare. For my '70 I bought a never used, still wrapped in clear sheeting temporary spare from a Jeep on Ebay...less than $30 including shipping and it fits the car with no clearance problems with the calipers or drums.
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Sounds like I don't need to worry about the H or X pipe-I'll let the muffler shop decide if it's feasible. In any event-even with the current cat exhaust the old Avanti sounds better than the beat up Honda Civic with the huge wing on the trunk & that awful 4 cylinder exhaust! And the Avanti has Bruce Springsteen coming out of the original Blaupunkt cassette (I am a Jersey boy originally!) instead of bad rap music. Bruuuuuuce....avaaaaaanti- two of my favorite cheers...Joe
In my '70 I have an Alpine CD/FM stereo with Boston Acoustics speakers and my '02 Avanti has a Monsoon stereo system...quite often ZZ Top and Mountain are blasting out of them (and I complain about hearing loss!).
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The sound really depends on which series Flowmaster you use. I have a '69 Corvette 427 and when the subject of mufflers comes up on those forums, most tend to share the same opinion as mine to the sounds of Flowmaster vs. Magnaflow. A car I had Flowmasters on was about the same loudness and tone as my old '63 Avanti with glass packs. Everyone in the area knew when I started it. My '02 Avanti has a factory installed Magnaflow car-back system and it has a wonderful low burble that opens up with speed.
I understand your point about our hearing at our age. I have enough hearing loss from gunfire when I was a law enforcement officer and firearms instructor (hearing protection notwithstanding), and many, many rock concerts when I was younger. I'm paying the price now. That...and I have always liked a car that when you start it, the ground shakes under it.
I'm not sure there's an advantage to an H-pipe or X-pipe for an Avanti. There may simply not be clearance underneath to do so. Between the two, an X-pipe has shown better hp and torque gains, but both show gains over a dual system without the crossover. The crossover pipe allows for balancing out of the power impulses the engine creates through the exhaust, but even though it's measurable, it may not be enough to notice by the "seat of the pants dyno". That's a tough call...if it's something you want to do, see if there's clearance for it and do so. The non-scientific method to determine where to install the crossover is to use a crayon and run a line from the exhaust pipe flange where it meets the header or exhaust manifold, to the muffler. Run the engine to normal operating temperature. Shut it off and check the crayon line. It will have melted and disappeared...where the line becomes visible again is where you locate the crossover pipe. The scientific reason for that I don't understand, that's simply the easy way to determine it.
Regardless of what exhaust you decide to go with, it surely won't sound like some of these sport compacts, or Ricers as I call them. They put those coffee can shaped mufflers on them that sound like a bunch of angry bees. As I said, I like to feel the ground shake under a real car when you start it.
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Definitely dump the cats! If your car is exempt from emissions inspections go ahead and get rid of them. The dual exhaust systems sold by vendors will fit fine and you can also get a muffler shop fabricate you a set. The dollars involved will tell you which way to go. An advantage to have it fabricated locally is you can specify what diameter pipe to use...2" or 2 1/2". If you stick with the 305 engine, a 2" exhaust may be better and a 2 1/2" may be better for a 350 engine or otherwise higher performance engine. If you want, you can always install a pair of high-flow universal cats...not that expensive anymore and much smaller than the originals.
If you have a local shop fabricate an exhaust system, specify either aluminized steel or stainless steel, not mild steel which will only last a few years. Stainless is more expensive and will last forever. It's also more difficult to work with. Aluminized is easier to work with, less expensive, and will last nearly as long as stainless. Your call on that.
I have Sanderson block hugger headers on my '70 which has a 350 in it. It makes no difference whether a 350 or 305 sits under the hood. The exhaust ports are the same. If you go with headers, no matter what make, get ceramic coated...they'll last longer, look better and control heat better compared to painted steel. I chose Sanderson because of the quality and they have the thickest flanges you'll find...less chance of leaks and bolts that back out.
For mufflers, it depends on what sound you like. I've had both Flowmasters and Magnaflows on different cars. Both are excellent quality. In my experience, Flowmasters have a loud, raspy sound that make you think you'll shatter windows of any neighborhood you drive through. Magnaflows have a deeper, mellower sound that open up at speed. At one time in my life I would pick Flowmasters...now I like Magnaflows better. You can get on their websites and listen to samples of their sounds.
While I think the Rochester Quadrajet is an excellent carburetor, it's electronic computer controlled version can be a nightmare. It's also hard to calibrate after all these years and probably not too many techs out there are experienced enough to do much with it anymore. It also could probably stand being rebuilt, which isn't cheap and few techs really understand a Quadrajet and how to set them up properly. Going to an Edelbrock intake and carburetor is a sound idea. My own recommendation would be to get the Edelbrock Performer EPS intake as it's designed specifically and is optimized for their square bore Performer carbs. The standard Performer intake in designed both for square bore and spread-bore carbs and while good, is not optimized for either. The EPS has better horsepower and torque numbers than the standard Performer. Not a huge amount better, but still an improvement.
Whichever intake you decide, get it without EGR...your current EGR likely doesn't operate properly anymore anyway, losing it and its associated plumbing will do a lot for cleaning up the underhood appearance and will probably run better.
The Performer 600 or 650 carbs would both work fine, though the 600 would likely be a bit better than the 650 for a 305 engine, especially at lower rpm's, plus it's about $100 less expensive. If you have a/c in your car, you'll need the a/c kick-up solenoid. It will be necessary and proprietary to Edelbrock. The Performer 1406 should be just what you need...electric choke and calibrated slightly toward economy, and it will still run better and stronger. Their Performer carbs are easy to adjust and hold their adjustments. If you're looking for pure performance, I think Demon carbs are where it's at, but for a street car Edelbrock is what you want.
The modifications you're considering should really wake that car up.
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I don't have a spare, and as far as I know, it wasn't used in any other Studebakers. There are some Avanti vendors who may be able to help you. Check Myer's Studebaker and Nostalgic Motors, as well as Studebaker International. You might also check some vintage Mercedes parts suppliers...the door locks were adopted from Mercedes and may well be interchangeable.
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It should be a Dana 44 like the Stude Avanti's. It should be a flanged axle rather than the standard tapered axles Studebaker used on R1 and R2 cars, but some Avanti II's received tapered axles, but I don't think it's known how many and until when that was done. It seems during the early years they used whatever was on the shelf and I've heard of the occasional Avanti II with tapered axles into the 1970's. I've seen no information of a change away from the Dana. I would think it was used until the changeover to the GM platform in the mid-1980's. There was a change in the rear brakes about 1971, so the backing plates and drums might appear different.
The 3.07 axle ratio was an optional ratio prior to 1976 and car RQB2374 as the 3.31 was standard. At car RQB2374 the 3.07 was made standard. You lose a bit of acceleration with the 3.07 but gain some top end and improved fuel economy which was possibly the reason for the change.
As far as whether you still have to pack the rear axle bearings by hand I don't know. If you have tapered axles...yes. If you have flanged axles I don't know. Hopefully someone here who knows for sure can answer that.
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If it's pouring out as you describe, it may be no more than the hose connection which comes through the firewall to the heater control valve or between the control valve and the heater core. It can still be the control valve or the heater core, but I would think they would be dripping previously rather than a full flow. You need to look under the dash on that side and see exactly what's happening. It may be obvious or you might have to put pressure in the system to force the leak.
If it needs parts, all the parts should be the same from '63 through about '85. The '63-'64 shop manual may be somewhat different on dealing with Altman Avanti's but should still be a huge help to anyone working on it. If your heater core is the culprit, you may be able to have it repaired by a competent radiator shop. There may be some aftermarket heater control valves that will work...someone else may have that information. For the most part...yes, Jon Myers or Nostalgic should have most parts you might need.
For the stain in your carpet, you have to remove the carpeting as any padding underneath will be saturated and needs to dry. If left it will get moldy and you'll end up replacing it anyway. You might check with an auto upholstery shop for a recommendation for stain removal. I don't know if any household brand carpet cleaner will work on glycol.
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I'm not aware of any back glass moulding available except as used when a car is being parted out. Check with suppliers like Jon Myers Studebaker or Nostalgic and see what they might have. There may be other vendors as well. Maybe someone else might have some suggestions.
If you can find a complete set at a reasonable cost, I would buy them. Use the best parts and either save the rest or sell them on Ebay to help offset the overall costs.
You're looking for the same moulding used on Avanti II's up through the mid-1980's at least.
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The stock compression for an R1 is 10.25:1. As long as you have the heads redone with hardened valve seats and keep the engine in tune, you should have no problems with todays gasoline. While I don't know how much of an issue this could possibly be, with the ethanol mixed in today's fuels, I understand it may not be all that compatible with the internal seals of the carburetor and flexible fuel lines from older cars. I can't say I have personal knowledge of anyone having such a problem, but it is supposed to be something to watch out for.
Even without hardened valve seats, most drivers of older cars have little if any problems with todays gas besides harder starting after the car has been sitting. That's due to fuel being reformulated today...it's not an issue for fuel injected vehicles, but carbureted cars experience it. Just something that has to be lived with. If your car has lived for over thirty years of only unleaded fuels being available, do you think it won't make it for another thirty years after a rebuild to the same stock specs using the same fuels?
BTW - there's nothing wrong with NAPA parts. They get their stuff from quality suppliers. There are a number of vendors listed through Turning Wheels and the AOAI magazine for most any part you want. Once you have your engine torn down and mic'd, you may find out all your cylinders are still within factory specs and don't need to be overbored...simply honed out. That way you wouldn't need new pistons...a big savings. The Stude block is quite hard and can take a lot of abuse. The '63 R1 I used to own was rebuilt at 100k miles...still within specs so a new set of rings was installed after honing with all new bearings. Most of the parts were sourced through NAPA.
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I'm not aware of anyone in the Studebaker or Avanti universe that has made up some blower bonnets, though some may have. There are other bonnets available on the market but they don't look like an original piece. You can do a web search for them or check Summit Racing's or Jegs' website. You can probably find enclosure boxes similar to an R3 box and that way it won't matter the difference in carburetor neck size.
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Also check Kanter Auto Parts. I have no experience with their carpeting but have dealt with them for parts in the past and found them great to do business with. They do list Avanti carpeting sets and trunk sets. Their website is <http://www.kanter.com>.
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I have Magnaflows on my '70...actually the factory put a Magnaflow cat-back system on my '02 as well. Nice, mellow tone with a low rumble at idle but opens up as rpm's increase. It lets you know you have a real car with a real V8 under the hood. Flowmaster is a good brand as well, but they have a loud, raspy sound that will almost shatter windows when you drive through a neighborhood. Not what I like. I've never had an Avanti with the quiet tone mufflers...the '63 R1 I used to own had stock glass packs that were similar in tone to Flowmaster (at least to my memory).
Try going to different websites like Magnaflow's or Flowmaster's...they usually have a sample of the sound of their product to listen to. Of course, it won't be on an Avanti, but you can at least get an idea of the sound.
Tony...what year Charger did you have? I used to have a '67 Charger...the original ramp back. 383, 4-spd...the car would RUN, but it was a money pit trying to rebuild. I eventually decided to sell it and go back to my real automotive love...the Avanti. It's unfortunate that the free market says Chargers are more valuable, but Avanti's are superior cars. I used to argue with one of my closest friends, who has always been a Mopar freak since he was a kid. I admit that Mopar engines, transmissions and rear ends are about as bullet proof as they come, but the cars themselves are cheaply built...weak electrical systems, cheap plastics, troublesome brakes, cheap quality upholstery, etc. That '67 Charger was made of lesser grade parts and poorer assembly quality than the '63 Avanti and '64 Pontiac Bonneville I used to own. He would disagree, which is fine, so essentially we've agreed to disagree on the subject. I believe Studebaker got far more from their starvation engineering budgets than Chrysler did with their far larger budgets.
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Funny you guys would suggest that! I was under the car tonight looking at the existing pipes, looking around and getting a feel for what it would take and I came to that very same conclusion. I thought, "since I have to cut the existing exhaust off; what would I do if I ran into something I couldn't handle". Then I would really be up (bleep) creek! Thanks for your insight.
Thanks,
Tony
You have to realize there's a lot of experience here...experience is defined as "What you get when you don't get what you want!" No one is giving advice that we haven't already learned the hard way...we're all quite "experienced" here.
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If you don't have an overhead lift, I'd advise you to leave that job to the pro's. Doesn't cost all that much, only takes
'em an hour or so, and they've got all the right tools to take the old stuff off and coax the new stuff to fit properly....
tried doing an exhaust system on my back, ONCE, when I was in my 20's, never again!
Another time I let a general-purpose shop put a new exhaust system in my Avanti (because they had the time to do it
on the day I wanted it done, using my parts)... that same night it was rattling like crazy, falling out of the bottom of
the car, and nearly dragging on the road; I took it to a muffler shop the next day and they uninstalled and re-installed
every pipe while shaking their heads in disbelief. Moral: use a muffler shop.
Doing it on your back is a royal pain. If you happen to snap off an exhaust manifold bolt that attaches the exhaust pipe, you're in deep (censored)! Good advice...let a properly equipped shop do it...not that expensive, it doesn't take long with a lift and proper tools, and if anything else is needed (clamps, hangers), the parts are right there.
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I had a 700R4 installed in my '70 as well as a new exhaust and the only issue was that a new backup and neutral safety switch setup had to be fabricated for clearance from the exhaust. They felt the stock setup was too close to the exhaust. The shop that did the work also fabricated the exhaust system, so a stock type from Nostalgic may or may not have this problem. I have no way of knowing if the systems would be any different from one another. I did specify 2 1/2" diameter pipes...I believe factory was a 2" diameter system. That alone could make for clearance problems with the switches.
There seems to be enough differences between individual Avanti's that anything is possible. Some have had clearance problems with the transmission tunnel when installing a 700R4...my car had no problems in that regard.
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Mirrors were generally dealer installed. The rule of thumb seems to be '63 cars had the mirrors on the tops of the front fenders and '64's had them on the door by the wing vent. I'm sure different dealers did them differently...the '63 I owned had the mirror on the door, but since I wasn't the original owner, I have no idea how it was originally mounted.
The door mounted mirrors have a nut inside the door that the screws tighten into. You have to take the interior door panel off to access them. Replacements are quite available. If it's the mirror head that's loose, I don't know if there is a repair though someone here might have come up with a way. Regardless, reproductions are available.
Rain channels seem to have been added sometime in mid-production but were also added to earlier cars after the fact.
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It looks like something Raymond Loewy would have had a hand in designing...aerodynamic, different, unlike anything else on the market.
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The VIN plate is located on the frame rail on the right side, just below the heater blower motor. It may well be covered in grease and difficult to read if that where you're already looking. The body number plate is not the same number as you've already seen. There really is no code to crack...the body number is just that..."RQ" simply designates an Avanti body and it's sequence in production and has no relation to the VIN. The VIN is also sequential in order of construction...Avanti VIN's start at 1001, so if you're reading the VIN plate correctly, it's the 2376th Avanti Studebaker built. That's all there is to the code.
You can order copies of the original build sheets for each car through Nostalgic Motors or the Studebaker National Museum. There's something like a $20-$25 cost for each and the build sheets will tell you exactly how the cars were originally equipped from the factory.
As far as working on the cars...outside of a cleanup to see exactly what you have, I wouldn't worry about the cosmetics at first. Concentrate on safety and driveability items...brakes, engine, electrics, lights, etc. Check to make sure the frame and hog troughs are solid...if not, be prepared for some big expenses or even consider them little more than parts cars depending on how severe the problems might be or how much money you're willing to invest. I'm not tying to scare you...Avanti's are absolutely wonderful cars, but there are certain things than can ruin the experience if you don't go about it in a planned and orderly manner. You can very easily end up in a ridiculously cash intensive endeavor if not careful. Depending on what you find after doing a complete survey of the cars, you might find they're quite rebuildable, or maybe use one for a parts car to restore the other then sell what's left, or both beyond economic restoration. Hopefully, both will be restorable...I for one want to see as many Avanti's saved as possible. I know parts cars are needed quite often, but at the same time, I hate to see any taken apart.
Feel free to ask anything you like...there's a lot of experience here.
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Another reason is some have installed air conditioning in a supercharged car and the battery space is needed for compressor clearance.
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According to all the information we have, your car should have a gold "S" on the hood and sail panels. Never say never, but it looks like they've been changed at some point on your car. If it doesn't bother you, don't worry about it unless you want it to be as authentic as possible.
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I hope the car does meet your expectations. These are wonderful cars...they have their eccentricities, but that can add to their uniqueness. There's a lot of knowledge here amongst the membership, so don't be afraid to ask.
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The "S" emblem changed from gold to silver at or about car #R4879 in early August 1963. The cars on the assembly line weren't always in sequence of VIN, so while it's recorded that R4879 was the first to have silver "S" emblems, it's entirely possible a car with an earlier VIN was in line behind it and received them also, but you're quite safe using a gold emblem on your car with its VIN and date of manufacture.
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In March of 1963 Studebaker dropped the year designator from VIN's. As far as the "S" in the VIN, I've read that was supposed to be the way the VIN's were done, but few seem to have followed that. Most, if not all R2 cars I've seen simply have R-XXXX in the VIN.
To find out exactly how the car you're considering was spec'd out for assembly at the factory, you can get a copy of the car's build sheet from either the Studebaker National Museum or Nostalgic Motors. There's something like a $20 fee for the service and it serves to prove or disprove the car's originality.
'78 Wiring Diagram
in 1965-83 Avanti
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I've never seen one for anything but the schematics for a Stude Avanti. About the best you can do is use that and work around it. I believe if you search around Bob Johnstone's site there are some additional hand drawn schematics for various years posted for a/c, power windows, and maybe a few other systems.