Gunslinger
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Posts posted by Gunslinger
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Ejector seat?
Sorry...couldn't resist that.
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A '70 Avanti should not need a drum puller...it has flanged axles, not tapered axles like Stude R1 and R2's used. You may have to tap the drums with a hammer to loosen them, but they should simply pull off.
I suspect you'll find a leaking wheel cylinder since you've checked the rest.
When I needed wheel cylinders I got them from Jon Myers. I wouldn't try buying wheel cylinders from NAPA. The problem is in the application charts...the wheel cylinder for your car also fits an older Jeep. While it physically looks right, it's a different bore than an Avanti. It lets too much pressure to the rear brakes and they will lock up before the front brakes bite. Don't ask how I found that out!
It might possibly cost a bit more, but I would recommend buying all your brake parts from the same vendor. Most Stude and Avanti vendor prices pretty much seem to be similar on these parts anyway.
Also...while you have the drums off, check and make sure your rear axle seals aren't leaking. I'm not saying they might be, but while you have the drums off, check everything while you're there. If they're leaking you'll need rear shoes anyway if they're covered in that fluid.
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You bench bleed the master cylinder off the car. That's only necessary when replacing the m/c or it's already off the car. You may not have a bad master cylinder but you definitely need to find where the leak is...it could be the master cylinder, a wheel cylinder or a caliper, a hose or a metal line.
Pull the front tires off and you can see if there's a mess of brake fluid on the back of one tire or the caliper and hose. For the rear, if the inside of the tires are dry and not covered in brake fluid, you'll have to pull the drums to check the wheel cylinders. Also check the flexible hose back near the differential.
If any of your brake pads or shoes are covered in brake fluid, you'll need to replace them as well. Brake fluid and brake lining materials are nor compatible and the lining will rapidly deteriorate and not stop well.
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It's a very strait forward job. I'm guessing you have a dual master cylinder like my '70 has.
Cover your fenders and inner fenders to protect the paint from any brake fluid that might spill. Suction out as much of the fluid from the old m/c as you can before removing the lines and unbolt the m/c and remove it.
You should bench bleed the new m/c before installing it to get as much air out if it as you can, then install it. Basically that's it outside of bleeding all four corners of the car, going right rear, left rear, right front then left front.
That's really all there is to it. You need a second person to pump the brakes while bleeding if you don't have a one-man bleeder kit.
One thing to look for...during the '70 model year Avanti Motors started putting silicone brake fluid in the cars as factory fill. After these many years you may not know if the fluid is still silicone (DOT 5), or has been changed to DOT 3. They are not compatible and will cause trouble if mixed...in fact, the way you describe how your brakes are acting is very similar to what happens when DOT 3 and DOT 5 are mixed. Is your current brake fluid cloudy? If so, you might have mixed fluid. Silicone fluid is usually purplish in color.
It would be very prudent to flush out your entire brake system. Use an alcohol solvent and blow it through with compressed air and make sure it's dry. Once your satisfied it's dry, refill with either DOT 3 or DOT 5 and make sure they never get mixed.
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That's the cruise control servo. It's a vacuum bellows that controls the throttle when engaged.
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It shouldn't matter as long as all are there. Remember the engine was designed for a GM car, not an Avanti, so ease of service in a non-GM car was not a consideration. Even then, service access for many GM cars was bad...just look at many Corvettes of that era.
Many custom small block Chevy installations do away with the breather sometimes. On my '70 I only have the PCV on one valve cover and the breather/oil fill on the other. Admittedly, in 1970 there wasn't as much in the way of emissions controls as on a '74.
You can combine the breather and oil fill to save the extra hole in the valve cover.
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Mike...I wasn't disagreeing with you at all. In fact, I thought I was expanding on your comments. There's just so much open to individual interpretation I guess one could think I was merely being argumentative which was not the case.
I love the Avanti design, but it's not perfect. As you said, any changes would have to take into account gov't safety regulations, etc. I meant that the Avanti, with whatever flaws it did have, was the result of an unusual set of circumstances...Stude's financial straits, Sherwood Egbert being made the company's President, Raymond Loewy's agreeing to take on the project and the men he picked to do it, etc. If it wasn't for that set of circumstances the Avanti would never have been a reality. The same can be said for Nate Altman and his decision to build the Avanti II. A lot happened because of a few men with vision, determination (maybe even desperation) and perseverance that I doubt we would see today.
Like you, I like the squared headlight bezels of the '64 and later Avanti's, but have never really warmed up to the square headlights after they went to the rubber bumpers. I think the '64 style gives the car a more elegant look.
I will differ with you on the seats. My '70 has the high back "Command Center" bucket seats...nice looking, but they give no support. The original design the the '63 I used to own were more comfortable. I'm replacing the high back seats with a pair of Recaro's I found at York last month, once they're reupholstered.
You mentioned the Jaguar "E" Type. To my eye, that's the most beautiful auto design ever...not a bad line in the entire car...particularly the early ones. It has sensuous lines.
I think we could spend many hours discussing our likes and dislikes about the Avanti design, its changes over the years. That's what makes this design so great...the emotions and passions it creates.
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I agree the front turn signals should have been incorporated in the front fender blades in the newer editions of the Avanti. I have an '02 as well as a '70 and like the original turn signal design better. If there was an engineering or cost reason for the change I'm not aware, but it may be due to the lack of working room inside the fender blades compared to the bumpers for installing the lights and housings.
I also agree the original Avanti design seems a bit narrow compared to its length, but the need to adapt a frame for cost reasons outweighed the desire to design a chassis that could have been superior for the purpose. That is one of the compromises that had to be made or there would likely never have been an Avanti at all. It's also been reported that the original design was somewhat shorter, but Studebaker management wanted it longer and the front fenders were extended creating the long overhang. From some angles, that is about the only part of the design that has any clumsy elements at all...at least to my eye. The visual clumsiness in that overhang is worse in my '02...likely the result of having to adapt that lovely Avanti shape to the Firebird chassis with its shorter wheelbase.
Wheel flares are an individual like or dislike. The original sketches by Loewy's team showed flares, but were eventually deleted. Loewy himself liked the flares but left them off for "purity of line". Regardless, a good fiberglass man can add them if someone wanted.
The windshield rake is also part of Avanti lore. The early mockups had more rake until Sherwood Egbert banged his head getting in and demanded a change so taller drivers could get in more easily. The change definitely made for better interior headroom but at some loss in streamlining and a bit greater drag. The worst aspect to the more vertical windshield I've notice is that instead of deflecting, bugs tend to simply squash and splatter when striking the glass. Stones do the same...chip the glass instead of deflecting.
Hardtop or coupe?...design could definitely eliminate the roll bar, but again, costs made the roll bar necessary. It was cheaper to incorporate a roll bar than design a new chassis or build the car out of steel rather than fiberglass. Yes, Corvettes were fiberglass and had no such roll bar, but they had a dedicated chassis plus the money and large engineering resources of GM.
From my point of view, the urgency with which the Avanti was designed and created, the financial condition of Studebaker that prompted Sherwood Egbert to conceive of such a car and the abilities of Raymond Loewy and his design team, made the Avanti what it is and has always been...a magnificent design, warts and all. I consider the GT Hawk as done by Brooks Stevens under similar constraints and urgency much the same. If Studebaker had been in a stronger financial condition, it likely wouldn't have happened at all.
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I think what you're suggesting has been done...at least in a limited way. One member here is fabricating a stainless steel chassis for an Avanti body, utilizing a Corvette rear suspension and Viper rear end. I've seen in a past issue of the AOAI magazine where another owner has installed independent rear suspension to his Avanti. I'm not aware of what front suspension was/is being utilized, or if they went with a stock type. So someone has at least done this to some degree.
As far as the Avanti name, someone won't be able to use the name for new production unless they get permission or buy the rights to the name. If you take an original body and drop a different chassis under it, it's still an Avanti as it was originally registered that way. A particular state my require a different classification, such as a street rod or similar once a car has been substantially modified from its original state of manufacture.
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The problem with original steering wheels is less their availability but more finding one in good condition. Those that become available go for big dollars. Those that are discolored, cracked, etc., are usually rebuildable by a specialist but are quite costly to do so.
Look at a Grant steering wheel catalog or their website. The adapter kits are still available from them as they will fit several cars from that era...Grant kit #4286. Some other brand steering wheels will work with Grant installation kits as well. There are some pretty nice steering wheels out there, and some that are quite cheesy looking as you said.
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That's essentially a rebodied Chevrolet so everything would be as it would in a Caprice, Monte Carlo or whatever chassis was used. That serpentine belt system makes for a different accessory layout. The Avanti body contours and panels were, by necessity, adapted to the chassis, not engineered to be an Avanti with a traditional Avanti layout of everything.
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That steering wheel came on many later Avanti's, maybe it was even standard. And I agree with you...it is strange looking.
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If there's anything you want to ask you don't feel asking on the board, simply send one of us a private message. I don't think anyone would mind that.
For me, I have no information on the VIN sequencing of the Avanti over the years, but I have read that cars weren't always assembled in VIN sequence. For instance, Avanti Motors ran the RQA and RQB cars concurrently until the RQA cars were discontinued during the 1970 model year. I've read in one source the RQB cars were started at RQB1500 but I've also seen the AOAI register cars listed with RQB VIN's much lower than that. Without complete records of production and sales, I don't see how anyone can compile an accurate list of cars completed. It's obvious you can't go by VIN numbers alone.
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There are many books on the small block Chevy available. Just check your local Borders, Barnes & Noble or even Amazon.com. I would suggest going to the book store so you can page through and see if any particular is what you want as the 400, while a small block, has some differences from the rest. Some books are more about performance upgrades and some are about the rebuilding of stock engines. The 400 was basically used for sedans and station wagons...it's not a performance engine like the 350's installed in Vettes and Camaro's.
You will find the standard '63-'64 shop manual a huge help, but you'll also find there are some differences between what it lists and what Avanti Motors did on some aspects of the car. The wiring harness is different for the Avanti II's, though the schematic in the manual is still a great help. You will run into certain things Avanti Motors did different...sometimes out of necessity due to lack of original parts, or for added options not available when Studebaker made the car. If your car has a rear window defogger, it's not mentioned in the manual as it wasn't an option. The same goes for sunroofs. Starting in 1970 with the RQB models, they installed a transistorized ignition, about '71 or '72 there was a change in rear brake hardware, later they changed the parking brake lever...these are things you find out sometimes the hard way and by asking questions. There were many running changes.
By and large, the Studebaker shop manual and a good small block Chevy manual and a GM transmission book are all you'll need. For what things don't fit under any of those categories, ask here. Many of us have gone through rebuilding an Avanti II and found what interchanges or modifications will work.
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You can contact Nostalgic Motors at 1-800-AVANTI-1 or through their website <www.avantiparts.net>. There are other excellent Avanti vendors and sources of information out there...like Studebaker International and Jon Myers, but for an '87 Avanti Dan and Betty Booth are probably your best source.
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Welcome to the group! There's a lot of experience and help here so don't be afraid to ask questions.
I don't know the number of convertibles made, but it's not very many...certainly less than 100 and that may well be a generously high number.
It definitely looks like a project car but it's worth saving. If I'm not mistaken, it's built on a Chevrolet chassis...either a Monte Carlo or El Camino but hopefully someone else will give more accurate information. Being a Chevy platform rebuilding the chassis shouldn't be much of a problem. Most drive train parts will be standard GM as well. It's the body and interior stuff that can drive you crazy sourcing.
Your best bet for many parts will be Dan and Betty Booth at Nostalgic Motors. They seem to be the best source of parts and information for the late South Bend and Youngstown Avanti's.
Again...welcome and don't be afraid to ask questions, and keep us advised of the progress...and TAKE LOTS OF PICTURES! Besides it documenting the rebuilding process, it can help a lot of others who may be tackling their own project.
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There are add-on third brake light kits you can get from JC Whitney, Summit Racing, Jegs, and some hot rod catalogs. The wiring is probably pretty simple but I've never tried it.
JMenaker has installed one in his Avanti I believe, but I don't know where he got it from. If he happens to see your question I'm sure he can answer it.
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Is it a GM power steering pump? If so, it's probably a standard GM application for that year...look under Corvette 300hp.
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I frequent other forums as well, primarily Corvette forums and the discussions are quite lively on this subject. There's also a lot of misinformation out there as well.
Essentially, due to EPA regulatory changes, auto manufacturers have required zinc (ZDDP) to be nearly eliminated from motor oils. This is not a big deal for new cars as roller rocker valve train assemblies are used now which eliminates the need for the extreme pressure protection ZDDP provides. Older design engines with flat tappet valve trains need this, particularly with new camshafts which need to be broken in properly. The last few years have seen a spike in early camshaft failures, often with less than 1000 miles on them. Part of the problem has been poor quality cam castings and lifters, particularly from China, and lack of proper lubrication due to not enough ZDDP in the oils.
In short, if you have a flat tappet engine, many say you need an oil with sufficient ZDDP, which is being completely or almost completely phased out of modern oils. One of the most popular additives has been GM EOS, which contained the additives required. Now, even EOS has been reformulated and may not be sufficient. The parts manager at a local GM dealership told me that EOS is simply GM's version of STP. STP has ZDDP additives...especially the red container made for four cylinder engines. Since all this controversy has been going on, STP in the red container has been difficult to find from so many buying it up. The law of supply and demand rears its ugly head!
Even Shell Rotella, which has been a very popular oil for its ZDDP contents is being reformulated with less to meet future EPA requirements. There are some other oils that do carry the proper amounts of ZDDP, but are on the expensive side...racing oils such as Joe Gibbs Oil. Mobil is also coming out with a synthetic oil for older engines.
It's not enough we have such problems maintaining and rebuilding older cars, much less orphans such as Studebakers and Avanti's, but now we'll have headaches with finding the proper oils for them. Or...just go buy some STP which Studebaker was doing all along!
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It sure looks that way! I have no idea if it's poor retouching by an ad agency way back when or an optical illusion from the angle one looks at it. Either way, it's odd.
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On my '70 I have Sanderson headers installed. They're the block hugger design and are ceramic coated. From what I've seen, Sanderson is about as good as it gets for headers...they have the thickest flanges I've ever seen on a header which goes a long way to keeping from warping or the bolts from backing out and creating leaks. In any case, most any brand block hugger design headers should work.
For the rest of the exhaust system I had a 2 1/2" pipe installed all the way back with Magnaflow mufflers. I'm not sure, but I think the speed shop that fabricated the system may have had to pinch the pipes slightly where they pass through the frame openings to keep them from rattling.
The only other issue I can think of was the shop had to fabricate a different backup light and neutral safety switch arrangement as the stock setup was too close to the exhaust pipe on that side, but this may have been more due to having a 700R4 installed and it's somewhat larger size compared to the original Borg Warner Power Shift than the larger exhaust pipes by themselves.
Any good custom shop or exhaust shop equipped with a pipe bender should be able to handle a new exhaust system for you.
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The Timken numbers are Set 2 for the outer bearings and Set 6 for the inner bearings. NAPA numbers are BR6 and BR2.
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Since you have a GM tranny behind a GM engine, I would imagine any universal cable for a GM car of that vintage would work. When I had a 700R4 installed in my '70 a universal cable worked fine.
I would check some speed shops or Corvette or Chevelle sources.
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I have the Edelbrock EFI in my '70 and it took some custom machining to be able to use the air cleaner I wanted so it would clear. I could have gone other routes for an air cleaner, and would have if the custom shop was unable to do as they did.
I would think TPI would clear the hood, but an air cleaner may have to be custom fabricated, but parts for doing so are pretty available. Look at the custom speed section of stores like Pep Boys and catalogs like Summit Racing, Jegs, Speedway Motors and the like. Due to the contours of an Avanti hood I think you'd be very lucky to find an air cleaner assembly from another car that would drop in.
When I was looking for possible alternatives for an air cleaner for my car if my preferred system wouldn't work, I found there was lots of mix and match type parts out there and something could have worked. I realize TPI uses and completely different plenum and throttle body design than than the Edelbrock carburetor style throttle body, you should be able to come up with something.
Besides stores like Pep Boys and sites like Summit Racing, look at manufacturers like K&N, S&B and others. They have a huge selection of air filter configurations.
2002 Avanti Wheels
in Avanti Pub
Posted
There should be no reason they won't fit as the '02 is on a Trans Am platform. Are you looking for completely new design wheels or a replacement for one or more of what you have?
The wheels that came on my '02 are AT Italia Riva's. They're available through distributors like Tire Rack and you can re-use the Avanti center cap if that's what you're looking for.