aardvark

There are a few options in the "For Sale" section that I found interesting.. Take a look , Friends.

Here in N.C. they've dropped emission standard and testing .. They do have a Safety Inspection though. Calif has it bad... the Proposed Jay Leno Law failed and now ALL Cars must meet a form of emission standards. I don't know how far reaching that is, however. It was Jay Leno's point was, Collector Vehicles were not a threat due to their lack of general use (as MFG points out). Wouldn't it be interesting if He packed His bags and moved His Operation out of State?

If my funds were not tied up I would be a serious buyer..

Same Back

It's a beef.. You just showed me again.... twice in 3 paragraphs ..Thus You deserve no further response .

Bob.. So what is your beef with me? Assuming again? Yes I started a thread and it's went 6 pages ..Some ballistic and some reasonable.. You determine where You fit. (I have my opinion) The subject spans a myriad of experiences and methods...That was my intent is to not only see pricing for our vehicles but others experiences..

Agree, but many just want to rag on others for their methods.. Sometimes a stand seems to be proper.

Ron.. I started the thread to see how others approach buying and selling. I don't cut down others. What I do do is state my methods and thoughts... Take them or leave them... Seems like my methods hit a nerve in some and they get obstinate about things.. They can buy/sell/enjoy as they see fit. ..................... Nice barn full of vehicles..Bro-Man

Bob. You assume too much when it comes to my methods and motives. I haven't, and won't do that of You.. Who has animosity? Look back at your allegations and opinions. If You've lost on nearly every vehicle You've owned... You're a ''Typical American". We as Americans spend more on Vehicles than Housing... Sad part is Vehicles generally depreciate but Housing increases in value. So in general the largest expense used to be Housing but that has shifted over the decades.. Now it's vehicles. My background is as an Architect and Builder as well as a Designer of other items. I try my best to move forward financially... not sustain losses every time a New Model of vehicle comes out (pointing to New Car Byers here), How UnAmerican of Me. So... IF You are losing on most every vehicle, You might be a future seller, but in Your case I highly doubt it, Your wise enough to not sell less than market, so to me,, Your out.

Bob. I don't make moves to lose. I have had 67 vehicles in my life. I've lost on very few. The few I've lost on have given me a little wisdom.. There is a top to what I can put out and right now. I'm near that but why do You see it as a problem? The assets are in house and in time they move and get replaced... This year is a shift.\ Also when profit is no longer a factor... in my opinion, You lose touch with sensibility. It's an expensive game and every transaction is to be studied. I know this goes against the Hobbyists in general, So be it.... You might be a future seller... Beware.

MFG As. said in multiple ... this is a Hobby and Business at the same time. Every deal I've made on vehicles I meet the sellers expectations so there is never a hard feeling finishing the deals. No Stealing..IF that's the implication,... (In fact the '02' Avanti I gave the seller full asking price) The purchase numbers are real and the profits are already in place ''at time of purchase''. What I'm seeing is these values have escalated over the 2 years I've owned the 3 vehicles I listed (above). So I'm better than my 50% goal on the profit margin. You see, the upside is I get to own and drive these beauties without fear of financial losses. That, my Friend is Goal. #1... Goal #2 is I eventually move on and profit well. (Got the Porsche and a VW up ''for sale'' now to possibly cover the Avanti purchases and then all is well on my financial front.)

Bob I never could run on emotions for a purchase. Financially it was never possible and IF I did that, I couldn't afford to be in this Hobby/ profession (however You view it). I have to approach a deal as having a 50% profit margin or the deal is dead... Why?...I know there will be some repairs and modifications needed IF I can't buy with a profit margin, I can't continue on buying the next one... You see. me selling off at a profit is paramount to me continuing. Current history is a 928 Porsche bought for $16k... a '63, R2 Avanti at $16k...a '02' Avanti for $19k. All are wonderful;l examples and are (as You call them) good drive, low mileage cars in near excellent condition. I have 2 other VW purchases as well. So at present a few things are up for sale to re-coup my losses as well as pump up the $$ stockpile. I'm far from wealthy and live on Soc Sec'y with a few side incomes..None of this would be possible if I went in to this venture with financial losses, a infatuation of a brand or needing multi $$$ restorations. These MUST profit or I'm financially dead in the water. For those of You in different financial states, Carry on. Generally it's folks who are not burdened with finances that are my sellers. MFG. We've been thru this before but my stance is that of a Business Model as well as a Hobbyist.. They can run synergistically.

Bob.. very well stated and sensical. I also agree with Your R2's values and assessment of how they are figured,,, due to condition. Whether we use a 1-10 scale or come at it from a different angle are similar in methodology. There are condition guidelines to follow whether some agree or not. The first thing needed excluded from that process is ''Emotion''. Some disagree wholeheartedly that the Transactions are Business Like. I hold strong to that fact. You can easily get hosed if walking into a deal with an emotional bent and a "Gotta have it!" attitude. Thanks Bob

Be Same!

MFG. No. It was Manufactured and sold as a Product. You / I can glamorize or Love the Product as we see fit but it is a conglomeration of parts Factory Assembled and then sold. I do Love me some HP and these Cars are quite a unique item.. That said, they are a Product. In my case a heavily desired Product. Just call em what they are,, then add Your own twist to it. I keep saying I'm done.... but keep getting challenged on my opinions.

Done... MFG... You can glamorize anything You want but a Car was produced... thus Product.

Skip.. I started the thread to invite opinions. It turned into a pissing match which is sad to see those in this forum degrade themselves while disrespecting others. I'll think hard before wasting my time entering opinions with low expectations of future childish crap.

Sheesh.. I edited out what I was going to say. It is always interesting what people will say to each other when not face to face, but instead on Internet. Civility gets lost.

I stated this thread as an opinion point, to hopefully list some common sense to help buy and sell our products. Last thing I expected is a pissing match on said issues. Sorry MFG... I said I was out but this needed said. Now I'm out.

Done at Your request, MFG

Doesn't have a supercharger...

Bob P. Congrats on new ownership. Your points are well taken and actually Your 63-4 R2 prices are much higher than I listed. I haven't kept up on the Market for this model but knew prices have been escalating over the 2+ years I've owned my '63' R2., automatic, white red/orange interior and as I claim a solid 7+ (Your 7 may be different). When I gave examples of the 3 groups of Avanti's I was trying to be a little conservative since I don't try and overemphasize the values, and mine is in that first group (as well as my '02' in the 3rd group)... I'm glad Your seeing (possible) #7 examples in the low to mid $40's .. It solidifies the value I have set on my own vehicle. ........ Off topic a little is the method of paying...I've kept about $100k available in cash at close reach. It's dwindled down some since I've bought 5 cars over the last 3 years. My reason for the cash is when flashing a bundle of $100's the seller sees me as serious and immediate. Also, I won't chance the deal passing me by waiting for a Banks decision. So... when I visit and agree on a deal, I have the title in hand the same hour.

Whereas I realize the initial question is near impossible to answer, there are some averages I'm seeing. I used a 1-10 range settling on a 7. to take a valuation from 3 categories.. 1)original 63-64....2)65-90ish....3) 01-07. Let me give this a ''w.a.g'' (wild a$$ed guess) I've based a #7 rating as a running moderate mileage car in very good condition with little need for paint or repairs. A car I can drive and enjoy.. So.... a 63-64 in $7 condition I see them selling in the $25-40k range.....A 65-90ish. generally $15-25k.....A. 01-07 generally in the $35-45k range. Remember I look for a 50a% profit margin (or a doubling in value)....., so my 63, R2 w/ 85k mi. I bought for $16K .... My 02, w/ 40k mi. I paid $19k. There needs to be some ballparking and generalization. Where I disagree with the crowd here is this is NOT like a a R/E purchase. There are no Banks approving a loan (or rarely), no board determining value.No appraisals being done. The item might be sold in a day or so, so a effort is made to jump on the purchase.. Real Estate is quite different... You are basically ''On Your Own'' when doing a Generalized Appraisal. Yes, there are indicators of values..Hemmings BAT and other sources and they are taken into account.. Also in R/E there are very few 50% off deals (I've. never seen any)..AND...Most transactions are cash not 30 year loans. So in my Barn. I've done well. Your mileage might vary. (editing was due to spelling errors)

Bac-at-cha

Well, in 4 pages of comments what has been said or learned? When I started this thread. I didn't realize it would have such tooth to it... but this is a sensitive and somewhat necessary discussion, as I see it. Values and those that could care less about values have been discussed.... Also those who Love their vehicles more than they control their spending on said vehicles. Others (like me) who see a profit in them.. We all approach these Vehicles a little different...... So be it. One thing I'm aware of is We all have a reality coming up in the future.. Someone will be selling our Estate. It will either be us prior to out passing '''or''' someone who inherits our stuff. I've made a list of what I have and placed an approximate value to all major items, but in the mean time I still try to buy / fix / sell as I go along. So that list will be update as things change (Values ...OR... Items). My Wife really enjoys the cars but has no clue or interest in them IF I pass first. My Son, the same scenario, . Neither of them have the knowledge or desire to try and keep my collection running, insured and driven on a regular basis. They will either sell off the stock pile or it will rot away.. I can say, I don't care because I'll be gone, but that to me is a little selfish to dump my interests on them... Your Mileage May Vary!