82 vs 83 paint problems

[Guest Larry Delazzer]

Hi, Did 82's experience the same paint problems I understand the 83's had. Thanks.

[studegary]

I do not believe so. The paint problems came about with changes made by Blake. Blake Avantis started with 1983 models.

[Guest Larry Delazzer]

Thanks, that was the conclusion I was coming to but information is sketchy so wanted a little confirmation.

[Guest Larry Delazzer]

Lets try another one, when did the paint problems get corrected, thanks.

[silverstude]

I've used the Deltron paint system and have concluded that they (Blake) waited too long after priming to spray the base coat. If you miss the window to spray the color coat, then you LOSE the chemical bond AND if you don't reprep the primer, then you compromise the mechanical bonding of the paints as well. If this was the case, then no wonder the stuff flew off in sheets...

[Gunslinger]

The explanation I heard was the new body composition required far more cure time before any primer or paint to be applied. The lack of time for the chemical solvents to come to the surface and evaporate meant any coating applied would lose adhesion and come off.

If Blake would have had a limited number of cars built with the new body material/new paint for testing the problem could have been discovered, the cause isolated and fixes implemented. But as we know...that didn't happen and we know what followed.

Basically...if the well tried and understood fiberglass they had been using was continued the Deltron paint would likely have worked out just fine. Blake was trying to lower man-hours in a man-hour intensive vehicle...a good business desire but not carried out in a smart way. It's easy to say that in retrospect, and Steve Blake was known for not waiting for anything...just get an idea and go with it.

[Gunslinger]

Sorry...post repeated.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Gunslinger

[Guest Larry Delazzer]

Sooo, does anybody know when Blake got the problem under control, thanks.

[Gunslinger]

I don't think Steve Blake ever got the issue under control...the bankruptcy court saw to that. He sued the paint manufacturer which was tossed out of court. An entire year's production was lost and most, if not all, cars needed repainting...some more than once.

[WayneC]

The explanation I heard was the new body composition required far more cure time before any primer or paint to be applied. The lack of time for the chemical solvents to come to the surface and evaporate meant any coating applied would lose adhesion and come off.

The story I remember hearing was that they finally tracked the problem to minute quantities of compressor oil leaking into the compressed air piping system used to power the paint guns.

[Gunslinger]

That makes at minimum three different explanations for the root cause of the paint problem. It looks like it will be another case of Avanti mythology with no resolution.

[kboyd]

I was wondering if anyone knows did the 1983 paint peeling problem start with Blake's restyled 1983 Anniversary models or did the problem apply the whole year's production run. Looking through Bob Johnson's Avanti index, it appears the majority of 1983 Avanti's were built to the traditional design with chrome bumpers.

[dynolou2]

The problem was with ANY Avanti painted with the Deltron paint system. My 1985 Avanti RQB 4240 was picked up at South Bend for delivery to Avanti NorthWest in Tacoma, paint began to remove itself on the drive out west! Gary Johnson said that it was repainted pryor to retail sale. Lou Cote Club Avanti NorthWest

[WayneC]

Just for grins, I did a Google search on the paint issue and came up with this (see page 413):

More Than They Promised: The Studebaker Story

by Thomas Bonsall (pages 414 & 415)

https://books.google.com/books?id=w67Uhn6bpnsC&pg=PA414&lpg=PA414&dq=1983+avanti+paint+problem&source=bl&ots=1QDvaIlF0Q&sig=OQDvmfra40KeUQrBOCiObBfSqkA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjynoKN-dTKAhVKzGMKHY2_B_UQ6AEIRzAG#v=onepage&q=1983%20avanti%20paint%20problem&f=false

It says the Ditzler Deltron urethane paint wouldn't properly bond with the Avanti fiberglass

Edited January 31, 2016 by WayneC

[GlennW]

I think the plethora of "explanations" perhaps shows how many ways there are to do something wrong, and with the painting of new fiberglass there are many. Sometimes it's as simple as changing the mold release type or brand, or what products and techniques were used to scrub and prep it regarding mold release residue on the parts. Variations in exotherm and/or baking temps during and after molding, as well as % of catalyst/resin and a whole other cast of variables come to mind. Remember when the urethane bumper covers first came into widespread use and body shops couldn't seem to repaint repair bumper covers? There were cars everywhere with big areas of yellow bumper where the paint fell off. Along comes new adhesion promoters instead of the usual primers and all was fine. The fact there was no smoking gun on an actual paint defect tells me they didn't really know the reason and didn't have the time or financial resources to find out. Really a shame, as it IMHO was a big factor in the company's failure.

Edited January 31, 2016 by GlennW

[plwindish]

Anyone know how many different years there were problems with paint for the Avantis? I was able to contact the original owner of my 76 Avanti II, RQB-2392 and he said he traded the car after 3 years back to Avanti Motors for a new 79 as the paint was fading. He did not say how long he had the 79, but said there were paint issues with it as well. The 3rd owner of the 76 had the car repainted in 89, changing from a tawny gold to a dark red metallic. I used the same body shop to paint the car last year and in talking with him about the 1st painting he did on the car in 89, he remembered there being a ton of paint on the car, probably a couple of resprays Avanti Motors that put on it, when he took it all the way down to bare fiberglass.

[Gunslinger]

I've seen many Avantis over the years that suffered from lacquer checking...long before Steve Blake made the change to Deltron. Acrylic lacquer may have many appearance advantages but it seems to not be durable unless well maintained. Whether that's an issue with fiberglass I don't know.

For all I know, Avanti Motors did not gel-coat their car bodies prior to primer and color coats. A '67 Avanti I once looked at with the thought of buying still had its original paint which was in decent condition, but from certain angles you could see the body seams showing under the paint...and this was with a very smooth surface. If it had been gel-coated that wouldn't have been the case.

The '63 Avanti I once owned had several paint jobs prior to my buying it...when I wanted it painted the shop said they found several other coats of paint and the original color under them.

It seems changing colors on Avantis is not an unusual thing. Whether that was due to the whims of owners or poor condition paint is an open question. Maybe of whatever generation any Avanti is from, the paint jobs were simply not durable.