Air Intake On A R1 63

[drexlog]

Anybody got any suggestions ??? I have started to totally rewire my 63 and have kind of "settled" on the idea that I have to put a cooling assist fan in front of the radiator. Car ran super-hot in this Texas weather and running the air-conditioner just pumped up the heat. I know my gauges are reading right but now I'm looking at this and physically I have the room to put in an assist fan in front of the radiator BUT where do I wire this puppy in ??? Anyone got any ideas ??

[Gunslinger]

You should first determine the root cause of your problem before simply throwing money and effort at it.

What do you define as "super hot"? It may not be as bad as you think.

You might have an engine block that needs a complete flushing out of debris. You might have a lower radiator hose that's collapsing under vacuum. The radiator itself might need a complete flush and/or rodding out. It could be the ignition timing is off which can create a running hot condition. It could be as simple as a bad radiator cap. Simply adding a cooling fan may somewhat be a bandaid but not address the problem itself.

All that being said, one thing that has been shown to help is to install the Saturn air deflector under the front end. It will direct more air to the radiator rather than under the car creating turbulence. I don't have the GM part number handy as I'm nearly 3000 miles from home right now but it costs about $30 at a GM dealer. It doesn't help when idling but does reduce engine temps at speed.

If you do decide to install an electric fan, a puller fan on the engine side is more efficient than one on the front of the radiator. That eliminates the heavy steel fan hanging on the end of the water pump.

[Avanti83]

I agree with Gunslinger on finding the source of the issue before applying a bandaid. This will cover the Saturn install and part # http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?42115-Avanti-Saturn-Deflector-21031161-Installationbut also let me suggest that you spend $30 at Harbor Freight and buy their IR temp unit. You can look all over the engine compartment for issue. They also work quite well on exhaust issues to find non-firing cylinders.

Something like this http://www.harborfreight.com/Non-Contact-Infrared-Thermometer-With-Laser-Targeting-60725.html

Bob

[boogieman]

Welcome. Lots of knowledge and experience here. What part of Texas you from? I'm in the Dallas area.

As Gunslinger stated, lots of potential issues to look at.

Could be the clutch fan if so equipped, too.

Does your car have a shroud on the back side for the fan blade?

On my '79 I fabricated panels inside and behind the grill to divert all the air possible through the radiator.

Then fabricated an air dam/splitter below the grill opening to divert air up and through the opening.

It is no lower than the bottom radiator core support and extends downward and forward at a 45* angle, 4" from the grill opening.

So far driving at Dallas speeds on the highways the car hasn't gotten above 180*.

I'm using the stock fan set-up. If you go electric, puller fans are more effective than pusher type mountings.

If you go that route the electric fan can be wired in with the temp sender unit and most have an adjustable thermal sensor to set

activation temps. My experience with electric fans has been iffy at best. Have had and used several on different cars with each having a short lifespan.

[drexlog]

Thanks guys....

A few things....

First "super hot" is 205 to 215 degrees on the gauge. Car has always run about 185/190 but when I get out on the street those hot July, August, September days in Houston the car just seems to be "gulping" for air and heats up

Second I had the radiator cleaned out and put on all new hoses when reinstalled.

Third I put on a new fan blade which is 1/4" greater in diameter and has eight blades (GM part for a Pontiac but don't have the number handy..sorry)

(Car actually ran a bit cooler after I cleaned radiator and changed fan blade "maybe 5 degrees cooler")

Fourth I have heard of the Saturn deflector thing but also ran into some folks here in Houston that thought it wasn't a real solution because it didn't lower the temp very much.

Fifth I hadn't thought of a puller fan and thanks for that suggestion.

Obviously one of the things I hope will also come out of this is I get better combustion. High heat will retard the combustion and hope this "fix" (whatever it ends up being) might get me to respectable heat levels. BTW Bob, I have one of those IR temp units. So far it has just confirmed most of what I was up against which is why I started to think about a cooling fan in front of the radiator.

I will look into that puller fan idea. That makes sense to me and I appreciate the comments guys.

Dick

[Gunslinger]

When it comes to Avantis, I don't think of 205-215 degrees as "super hot"...maybe hotter than normal than you've experienced but consider you're in Texas. If it stays in that range in the conditions you describe without heading higher you probably don't have much to worry about other than how hot Avantis get inside or your feet.

I've found with the Saturn air deflector the temps do run about 10-15 degrees cooler than before...at highway speeds. Idling in traffic it's no help at all.

Every Avanti is different. Some have never experienced overheating problems and some have. I guess it's part of the "Avanti experience".

[garyc]

Regarding the combustion of the engine you might consider a cold air intake system. I bought a Spectre low profile polished aluminum plenum to fit the carburetor neck, bought some aluminum duct from the hardware store and added an air filter under the right fender. R3's added cold air duct at this location. Because my car has AC I didn't put the filter in front of the radiator. Also if you are not confident the engine block is clean of debris that too may be adding to your heating issues.

[drexlog]

Well one thing I am sure of, EVERY AVANTI is DIFFERENT. I bought a 63 brand spanking new and never had a problem with overheating. Of course then I was in Wisconsin and didn't have the issues we have here in Houston. I had a 87 R3 a few years ago and that one ran about 195/200 all the time and I can fully understand Gunslingers comment about the "heat on the feet" issue because that car was "toasty" . This bugger seems to have all kinds of "wierd" issues and the 205/215 degree heating issue really bothers me. You comment Gary about a cold air intake system interests me. Not sure how that works. OK I understand the plenum thing under the carburetor neck but you mentioned you "added an air filter under the fender". If R3's had these things (I don't remember my 87 having it at all), is there some documentation I can look at to get a better idea ???? For some reason my light bulb is staying out on this one. I guess I am wondering which system would work better, the cold air system or a puller fan.

[lschuc]

Have you ensured that the engine block cooling passages are clean? Maybe back flush the block/heads first... or maybe pull all the block core plugs and block drain plug and physically make sure that the block cooling passages are clean. It's a dirty job, but if the engine has not been rebuilt and cooling passages in the block boiled out an 50+ years of sludge scrapped out, it would be one reason why an engine runs hotter.

[drexlog]

Thanks Lew....hadn't thought of that.

[JLBKY]

Drexlog..........I lived in Texas for many years in both Dallas and Houston and know first hand what you are experiencing. When you drive your car, just about the only gauge you look at it the water temperature!

I've owned my Avanti for 43 years and have solved the over heating problem in my car. What all I did is way too long to post here. If you want to call me, you are welcome to, and I'll tell you what all I've done to fix this problem.

John

502 Seven, Seven Three, Zero,592. Eastern Time Zone

P.S. All of the suggestions given above are excellent and are are part of the solution.

[boogieman]

Understandable about concern at 205* - 210* gauge temp. Water boils at 212*, but in a sealed cooling system with a good cap, 16 to 18 lbs,

water wont boil until 225* to 230*. So there is still a marginal safety factor of 20* to 25* built into the system.

All this assuming the gauge reads accurately.

Except for modifying my car too extensively, I have thought about adding reverse louvers to the inner splash aprons to help vent

the engine compartment and help keep temps down. Heat rises with no where to escape thus the suggestion to pop the hood under

extreme conditions to let the heat escape. Not a good idea in my book.

I'll have to wait to see how #2897 handles the heat. It spent 30+ years in Fla so might be ok.

[drexlog]

Thanks guys....

I think I have to "leave my baby" for a few weeks however. Got a job up in Washington State that will probably last about four weeks so I'm sure I'll here about the "mess I left" in the garage from my bride when I call home these coming weeks. Oh well.... I'm retired (Ya Right) and procrastination is something I am learning how to practice with a lot of things. Problem is, it's too much FUN driving the Avanti and I really want to get it back on the road !

[drexlog]

By the way, JLBKY.... I'll probably give you a call in the next week or so.

Dick

[StudeNorm]

Lew's suggestion about cleaning the water jacket is right on the money. I have replaced core plugs on two motors recently and both water jackets had a lot of crude built up along the bottom of the passages. A coat hanger wire and high pressure water jet went a long way to cleaning some of the crude out. It's a dirty job but an important step towards curing a heating problem. Only a full caustic dip (are we allowed to do that anymore?) will get the inside passages completely clean

Remember that when these cars were new there were NO overheating problems. That headache had been engineered out. After 50 years we now have problems, but we also have rust and calcium and all sorts of other nasty things happening inside those motors so we need to apply different and better solutions to our problems. Don't just treat the symptoms.

One of my motors is slated for replacement and I will make sure the block is as clean inside the water jackets as it is everywhere else. This goes for the radiator as well.