rear view mirrors attachment.

[Milt]

My side view mirrors have never been overly secure mounted to my doors. I am getting ready for paint. Does anyone have a suggestion on what to put back in the holes I currently have in the doors so I can screw the mirrors back on. The holes I have now are pretty large, and I may need to reglass this area and start from scratch.

I can also see evidence where the driver mirror was once mounted on the left front fender, at the very back edge. Anyone seen this before. Where rearview mirrors dealer installed?? Are there many variations or is their a stock spot.

Thanks

[Gunslinger]

Outside rear view mirrors were dealer installed. In '63 the fenders were generally the location they were installed. For '64 models the sides of the doors became the preferred location. You have to remember that many states at that time didn't require outside rear view mirrors so it was left up to dealers.

There's supposed to be well nuts on the inside of the door used with special screws to secure the mirrors...not simply the screws themselves holding the mirrors to the fiberglass. When you simply use screws through the fiberglass there's really nothing much to keep the mirrors from moving and weakening the holes. Yours look like it had increasingly larger screws used in an attempt to secure the mirrors.

The well nuts and special screws are available from Studebaker International and likely the other normal vendors.

[Milt]

found the well nuts in the SI catalog. didn't know what they were called.

Thanks

[lschuc]

Milt, also if you use the reproduction mirrors from Studebaker International, it is best to place several flat washers in the bottom of the mirror, between the base of the mirror and the gasket, otherwise the mirror will not tighten securely.

[GlennW]

Outside rear view mirrors were dealer installed. In '63 the fenders were generally the location they were installed. For '64 models the sides of the doors became the preferred location. You have to remember that many states at that time didn't require outside rear view mirrors so it was left up to dealers.

There's supposed to be well nuts on the inside of the door used with special screws to secure the mirrors...not simply the screws themselves holding the mirrors to the fiberglass. When you simply use screws through the fiberglass there's really nothing much to keep the mirrors from moving and weakening the holes. Yours look like it had increasingly larger screws used in an attempt to secure the mirrors.

The well nuts and special screws are available from Studebaker International and likely the other normal vendors.

So the location of the right door holes in his second pic would (could) be considerd correct for adding to a '64 that already has it's left one up on the fender like the first picture's? My '64 has had it's left hand one on the front fender from day one, and never had a right hand. Haven't gotten around to adding a right hand one yet, though last Fall I finally bought one

[Milt]

The pictures are of the right door with the augured out holes, and the left fender where you can barely make out the indents from the fender mounted mirror. I do have two holes on the left door that are not quite as large as the rights.

So I'm thinking of taking off the door panels (got to adjust the sag out of both) and reinforce the holes from below and fill the holes. Then either mount the fender mirror or redo the door ones.

I have a new rule of thumb. Just when you think you are almost done and you think you only have one item to fix, you find three more to do.

[JLBKY]

I'll offer this. If you mount them on the door ,make sure you install them so as to not make the vent window inoperable.

If you mount them on the fender, understand that adjusting them while driving is not ging to happen. Would not be my choice.

Yes you need well nuts to mount them and as was previously mentioned, put some flat washers in between the bottom of the mirror and the gasket. You'll see what a difference it makes. I'd suggest you use Stainless Steel washers.

Well nuts are readily available at a good auto parts store. I've even seen them at Home Dumpo and Lowes. Remember that , if you use well nuts, you'll be using a machine screw to secure the mirror . I'd suggest you find the correct chrome or stainless machine screw that looks right and fits in the mirror base and then find a well nut that accepts that size and thread machine screw.Make sure the well nut is a tight fit in the hole you drill.

John

[GlennW]

I'm curious why nobody uses Rivnuts as the body anchors. Perhaps it's because they want the mirrors to be able to move around a bit if jostled and bumped by pedestrians in parking lots & garages? I've never cared for how much movement the mirror assy has, always made them feel cheap. The washer shimming makes sense, but the wellnuts are still rubber, right?

[bigdaddy]

The pictures are of the right door with the augured out holes, and the left fender where you can barely make out the indents from the fender mounted mirror. I do have two holes on the left door that are not quite as large as the rights.

So I'm thinking of taking off the door panels (got to adjust the sag out of both) and reinforce the holes from below and fill the holes. Then either mount the fender mirror or redo the door ones.

I have a new rule of thumb. Just when you think you are almost done and you think you only have one item to fix, you find three more to do.

Hope you don't run into what I did, when adjusting the doors. The area where the hinges bolt to the doors were cracked. Had to beef it up and glass over the area. Take a good look at it! Instead of a couple hours adjusting doors, it took a few DAYS!

[mfg]

I'd add that I've always thought twin fender mounted Avanti style mirrors look nice on these cars...if not completely practical!...However, I believe their location should be closer to the rear edge of the hood than the location of the filled holes on the left fender of your Avanti. (In other words...further forward)

[JLBKY]

I'm curious why nobody uses Rivnuts as the body anchors. Perhaps it's because they want the mirrors to be able to move around a bit if jostled and bumped by pedestrians in parking lots & garages? I've never cared for how much movement the mirror assy has, always made them feel cheap. The washer shimming makes sense, but the wellnuts are still rubber, right?

I've used Rivnuts and like them a lot. I used them on the panel between the rear seat back cushion and the gas tank. If, you have ever removed that panel, you know there are a lot of screws securing it in place. My experience in that installation was that the majority of the Rivnuts would "bite" the fiberglass correctly, but every now and then they would not and the Rivnit would spin. Could it be operator error? Without a doubt. Drilling out the spinning Rivnut creates a "SloppyHole" in the glass , making the installation of a same size replacement questionable. Going up in Rivnut size means larger screw as well. On the panel at the gas tank, ( larger size ) no problem. On a mirror ( larger size ) ............problem.

I've used Rivnuts on metal applications as well with no problems. Like I said, I've used them a lot on my other cars.

[Milt]

Did some more research. First I just put 1963 Studebaker Avanti into that popular search thing.. The first selection is just to view pictures of the car. And the mirrors are all over the place. Some on the doors (not as many as I thought would be), some on the fenders close to the windshield, some much further forward.

Then I looked up well-nut. they came in all sizes, but the size that will hold the correct size threaded bolt comes in a 3/8 wide outside diameter well-nut. So I measure the holes in my car, and they are indeed 3/8 of an inch. Of the four holes, one had a well-nut, the rest had something like you would use to hang a picture in sheetrock.

Then I looked up rear view mirrors. It's different from state to state in what is required. Not Federal from what I could tell. Some states have a ruling that if your car did not originally come with them, you didn't need them. Some wanted a left one and another one.

So I think I will stay with the original location.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Milt

[GlennW]

I've used Rivnuts and like them a lot. I used them on the panel between the rear seat back cushion and the gas tank. If, you have ever removed that panel, you know there are a lot of screws securing it in place. My experience in that installation was that the majority of the Rivnuts would "bite" the fiberglass correctly, but every now and then they would not and the Rivnit would spin. Could it be operator error? Without a doubt. Drilling out the spinning Rivnut creates a "SloppyHole" in the glass , making the installation of a same size replacement questionable. Going up in Rivnut size means larger screw as well. On the panel at the gas tank, ( larger size ) no problem. On a mirror ( larger size ) ............problem.

I've used Rivnuts on metal applications as well with no problems. Like I said, I've used them a lot on my other cars.

Agreed, unless one can hold a Rivnut from the swaged side with a visegrip while drilling, they are a problem to get out and can spin & leave the hole oversized. Since the Rivnuts need a snug fit to be set correctly that can be a killer BUT there are often different OD rivnuts for the same size thread. I make fiberglass motorcycle fairings that use six ¼-20 and four 10-24 aluminum Rivnuts so I've set a lot of them. The smooth shank with knurled head ¼-20 ones I normally use take a size Q drill. If anything goes wrong there is another part number for a grooved shank that takes a 25/64" drill. After I set them in fairings halves I use low-foaming Elmer's Glue-All Max (similar to Gorilla Glue) overnight to help add rigidity & combat spinning. In a blind use like the Avanti mirrors I would only use a grooved shank aluminum one and make darn sure it was the proper grip range for the fiberglass thickness. (it's 28° in the garage right now, so I'd also do it months from now)

[JLBKY]

Agreed, unless one can hold a Rivnut from the swaged side with a visegrip while drilling, they are a problem to get out and can spin & leave the hole oversized. Since the Rivnuts need a snug fit to be set correctly that can be a killer BUT there are often different OD rivnuts for the same size thread. I make fiberglass motorcycle fairings that use six ¼-20 and four 10-24 aluminum Rivnuts so I've set a lot of them. The smooth shank with knurled head ¼-20 ones I normally use take a size Q drill. If anything goes wrong there is another part number for a grooved shank that takes a 25/64" drill. After I set them in fairings halves I use low-foaming Elmer's Glue-All Max (similar to Gorilla Glue) overnight to help add rigidity & combat spinning. In a blind use like the Avanti mirrors I would only use a grooved shank aluminum one and make darn sure it was the proper grip range for the fiberglass thickness. (it's 28° in the garage right now, so I'd also do it months from now)

Thanks...............I learned somehing from this.

Merry Christmas!

John

[GlennW]

Thanks...............I learned somehing from this.

Merry Christmas!

John

My pleasure, Merry Christmas to you also. The screws/wellnuts that came with my SI repop mirror are 10-32 thread, I don't have any 10-32 rivnuts handy to measure but a 10-24 rivnut is smaller diameter than the 10-24 wellnut. Assuming the same applies for 10-32 Rivnuts I'm going to go with them and see how I like the installation (assuming the fiberglass doesn't exceed the rivnut's .130"~.225" grip range) since if it doesn't work I can just open up the holes to the correct wellnut size.

[brad]

The reason for putting the flat washers under the mirror is the surface underneath is not flush with the bottom. Since the rubber well nuts need to be compressed first to expand, they will just pull up into the void and not expand, and the mirror will flop around. By having the washers preventing the well nuts from pulling up they expand fully below the level of the fiberglass and hold properly.

[Warren Webb]

I suggest replacing the mirror with AC-3310X on the right side. It has a convex glass. I put AC-3310's on both sides of my Avanti but the right side was useless. Now Ed has one for just that application I'll use the one from the right on my 59 wagon & order the proper one for the right side.