Avanti Serial!

[mfg]

Studebaker Avanti serial number plates were installed on the frame rail as opposed to the 'A' pillar, (as in other period Studebaker passenger cars) because................................?

Edited October 27, 2018 by mfg

[mfg]

How about this one?

[r1lark]

Well.........thinking about how the serial number plates are attached on all my Studebakers..........Studebaker Avanti serial number plates were installed on the frame rail as opposed to the 'A' pillar because the factory couldn't figure a way to spot weld the stainless serial tag to fiberglass!!

[mfg]

4 minutes ago, r1lark said:

Well.........thinking about how the serial number plates are attached on all my Studebakers..........Studebaker Avanti serial number plates were installed on the frame rail as opposed to the 'A' pillar because the factory couldn't figure a way to spot weld the stainless serial tag to fiberglass!!

They hadn't heard of GORILLA GLUE???......Sorry no, that isn't why!

[1963r2]

The bodies were made in different locations as opposed to the frame.

Edited October 27, 2018 by 1963r2
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[mfg]

13 hours ago, 1963r2 said:

The bodies were made in different locations as opposed to the frame.

1963r2 'hit the nail right on the head'!.........WELL DONE!!

[r1lark]

Ed, when in the process of Lark/Hawk assembly do you think the serial number plates were stamped with a car's serial number and attached to the left door post?

[studegary]

3 minutes ago, r1lark said:

Ed, when in the process of Lark/Hawk assembly do you think the serial number plates were stamped with a car's serial number and attached to the left door post?

Not Ed, but I know what you are driving at.  The S/N plates on the steel bodied cars were attached after final paint.  This makes me also believe that the S/N plates on Avantis were not attached to the A-pillar due to Fiberglas.

[mfg]

3 minutes ago, r1lark said:

Ed, when in the process of Lark/Hawk assembly do you think the serial number plates were stamped with a car's serial number and attached to the left door post?

That would depend if a previously assembled body was pulled from the bank, or if for whatever reason the body build occurred after the 'DATE WRITTEN' on that particular vehicles PO.

[studegary]

2 minutes ago, mfg said:

That would depend if a previously assembled body was pulled from the bank, or if for whatever reason the body build occurred after the 'DATE WRITTEN' on that particular vehicles PO.

What??

[mfg]

2 minutes ago, studegary said:

What??

I know I'm quick....but you need to stay with me!!!!!

[studegary]

7 minutes ago, mfg said:

That would depend if a previously assembled body was pulled from the bank, or if for whatever reason the body build occurred after the 'DATE WRITTEN' on that particular vehicles PO.

Okay, I will expand my answer.  I do not see where there would be a difference in the time of attachment of the S/N plate relative to your answer.

[r1lark]

9 minutes ago, studegary said:

Not Ed, but I know what you are driving at.  The S/N plates on the steel bodied cars were attached after final paint.  This makes me also believe that the S/N plates on Avantis were not attached to the A-pillar due to Fiberglas.

Let me push back on you somewhat Ed.

Lark and Hawk bodies were built and then stored in the body 'bank'. The body tag would be installed onto the body, but the serial number plate would not be installed onto the body at the time the body was built. The reason is obvious -- the body was going to the body 'bank' so there was no way of knowing which completed car the body would be installed onto.

Once a production order was written for a specific Lark or Hawk with specific options, a corresponding body was pulled from the body bank and sent on its way to painted and upholstered according to the specifics on that production order. At the body drop, the body met the frame that had been specifically produced to match the mechanical options on that production order.

At some point in this process the serial number plate would need to be stamped with the correct serial number and spot welded to the body. This was well after the body was originally built, and most likely as Gary notes after the paint process.

So...............my point is this: Like the Avanti bodies being built in a different place as opposed to the frame, a Lark/Hawk body was built in a different 'place' (building) and was not mated to the frame until the body drop. How is this any different than an Avanti body? And what about the Avanti bodies that were manufactured in South Bend?

[mfg]

r1, as you know, even though Studebaker Avanti bodies were ultimately built in South Bend, most earlier cars were assembled in Ohio....THAT's the difference!....Studebaker had control of the Avanti chassis build, but not the 'body build'.

The Altmans did indeed fasten Avanti serial plates to the 'A' pillar, (with rivets), however, that was LONG AFTER Avanti bodies (and Avanti chassis) were both made at the South Bend factory!

[mfg]

20 minutes ago, studegary said:

Okay, I will expand my answer.  I do not see where there would be a difference in the time of attachment of the S/N plate relative to your answer.

Gary, what it comes down to is many of the more 'popular' Stude sellers were built ahead for stock in South Bend, others were only assembled after the specific order came in.

[studegary]

19 minutes ago, mfg said:

Gary, what it comes down to is many of the more 'popular' Stude sellers were built ahead for stock in South Bend, others were only assembled after the specific order came in.

The cars built ahead for stock got their S/N plates at the same time (point in the process/build) as other cars got theirs.

[mfg]

1 hour ago, studegary said:

The cars built ahead for stock got their S/N plates at the same time (point in the process/build) as other cars got theirs.

Although it's possible Studebaker Avanti frames received their serial number plates at the same time other Studebaker passenger cars did, frankly, I highly doubt it!

[studegary]

19 minutes ago, mfg said:

Although it's possible Studebaker Avanti frames received their serial number plates at the same time other Studebaker passenger cars did, frankly, I highly doubt it!

That is not what I said.  I was replying to your claim of a difference between stock bodies and new orders (of Larks/Hawks). 

[r1lark]

2 hours ago, mfg said:

r1, as you know, even though Studebaker Avanti bodies were ultimately built in South Bend, most earlier cars were assembled in Ohio....THAT's the difference!....Studebaker had control of the Avanti chassis build, but not the 'body build'.

The Altmans did indeed fasten Avanti serial plates to the 'A' pillar, (with rivets), however, that was LONG AFTER Avanti bodies (and Avanti chassis) were both made at the South Bend factory!

Ed, what I'm trying to say (obviously not very well ) is that the serial plates on Larks/Hawks were not spot welded to the hinge post when the body was assembled -- it was done during the car's assembly process . So even though the Lark/Hawk bodies were made 'on-site', the serial number plates still weren't installed until the car was going thru the assembly process (frame, body, engine, trans, etc being assembled into a actual car). Think about it -- the serial number was not known when the production order was printed -- that had to be filled in later (along with the final assembly date, body number, ignition and trunk key numbers, and engine number).

So.........if the Lark/Hawk serial number plates could be attached to the left door hinge post during the car's assembly process, why couldn't the Avanti serial plates be attached to the left door hinge post during the car's assembly also?? Of course they could have been -- so there must have been another reason that the Avanti serial number plates were attached to the frame instead of the left door hinge post.

Where the body was made should not have had any bearing on this........because the serial number plate couldn't be attached until the during the vehicle's (ie, frame, body, etc) assembly process.

[mfg]

No Paul, you are making your point very succinctly, however, the reason Studebaker Avanti serial number plates are located on the frame and not the "A" pillar (as on the other Stude passenger cars), is because Studebaker was building complete Avanti chassis....in effect, having a chassis ready to accept the completed body eventually being shipped from Ashtabula.

Perhaps a better question would be why, when Avanti body production commenced in South Bend, did they continue to attach those serial plates to the frames?.....And the reason is quite simple...to eliminate future confusion at the parts dept, dealership, and vehicle ownership level.

[mfg]

1 hour ago, studegary said:

That is not what I said.  I was replying to your claim of a difference between stock bodies and new orders (of Larks/Hawks). 

Gary, not trying to be rude here, (you're a 'good guy'!), but this trivia question concerns Studebaker AVANTIS!

[MarcD]

Hoping this thread isn’t too old to ask, but has there ever been a final, definitive answer to the question of the Avanti rear frame crossmember stamped with a hidden serial number, like the Lark and others? 

 

How about The Avanti II? They had no frame serial number plate on the right frame rail like the ‘63/‘64 cars; just the serial number plate riveted on the drivers side hinge post.

Thanks,

Marc

[1963r2]

The hidden number on the Studebaker Avanti was on the cross member above the diff or at least it was on my one.

pb

[MarcD]

Thanks. pb.

 

Maybe Studebaker (Or the Feds!) knew the tubular rear crossmember would rust out!

 

I’ll check my 1966 Avanti II (RQ-A0090) and see if the number’s there.

 

md

[mfg]

7 hours ago, MarcD said:

Thanks. pb.

 

Maybe Studebaker (Or the Feds!) knew the tubular rear crossmember would rust out!

FUNNY!

 

 

md