Avanti Color!

[mfg]

Studebaker Avanti 63R1025...the Hot Rod Magazine road test Avanti, was originally painted "AVANTI RED".....True?

[Nelson]

63R1025 was originally turquoise as was the Hot Rod R3 road test car.

[mfg]

20 hours ago, Nelson said:

63R1025 was originally turquoise as was the Hot Rod R3 road test car.

Yep, that's right!

PS ...Studebaker Avanti 63R1025 was the 1963 Hot Rod Magazine (R3) road test car.

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by mfg
Added text

[Avanti1963!]

The Hot Rod R3 Test car is 63R1016 and is turquoise inside and out.   

[mfg]

34 minutes ago, Avanti1963! said:

The Hot Rod R3 Test car is 63R1016 and is turquoise inside and out.   

That is incorrect...The R3 powered Studebaker Avanti which was used in the major 1963 HRM article was serial # 63R1025

[mfg]

Studebaker Avanti 63R1025, the 1963 HOT ROD MAGAZINE ROAD test car, is currently undergoing a full restoration.

[Nelson]

This I’m sure is going to be a very touchy subject. I know that R1025 was deemed to be the R3 Hot Rod and Motor Trend test car on the forum several years ago even after R1016 was mentioned to be the real car. I’ve done a lot of research on the subject and R1016 is actually the R3 test car and was funded by Studebaker for this purpose. It was delivered to Paxton as a four speed and was converted at Paxton to the power shift transmission, probably due to the drive train considerations as the test car was still equipped with a tapered axle. I believe R1025 was an R2 test car very early on and turned zero to sixty times of 6.7 seconds which are the best times I can remember for an R2 Avanti. R1025 was Andy’s personal car and has tremendous credentials and probably was massaged beyond the stock R2 configuration. It is very worthy of a full, no expense spared restoration which is in process.

R1016 was at MCCACN this year and was presented with much of its documentation.

[Avanti1963!]

We learn new things all the time in the Studebaker world.   I have seen the documentation and evidence and it's clear the 1016 was the Hot Rod car.    1025 is also a special car, just for other reasons.  

[mfg]

11 minutes ago, Avanti1963! said:

We learn new things all the time in the Studebaker world.   I have seen the documentation and evidence and it's clear the 1016 was the Hot Rod car.    1025 is also a special car, just for other reasons.  

Very interesting research..however as I've actually been in 63R1025, and discussed this subject with its former owners from California and then Maine, I respectfully have to remain skeptical of what you say.

At the same time, I wasn't there in 1963, and I realize that you may be correct...Hopefully 63R1025's former owners will add their thoughts here.

Once again, I do respect your opinion.

[mfg]

Perhaps Avanti Forum member 'GEOFFC312' will see this thread and shed light on this subject.

[mfg]

Not sure if Mr. John Shanahan of Illinois is still with us. (sure hope he is!).....That man would be able to give pertinent information about 63R1025's history.

[mfg]

9 hours ago, Avanti1963! said:

We learn new things all the time in the Studebaker world.   I have seen the documentation and evidence and it's clear the 1016 was the Hot Rod car.    1025 is also a special car, just for other reasons.  

I'm thinking that if it wouldn't be too much trouble, could you post/ explain the documentation which you have seen concerning 63R 1016 here on the Avanti Forum?

Once again, you may be correct....?

[mfg]

On 12/27/2022 at 10:48 PM, Nelson said:

63R1025 was originally turquoise as was the Hot Rod R3 road test car.

Both cars being turquoise does confuse the issue some!....

Wish we could see something from Studebaker, the Granatellis, or Hot Rod Magazine that  would definitely settle this question!

[Nelson]

These are the two poster boards shown with the car at MCCACN. This is a small portion but should be pretty obvious.

[mfg]

Nelson, thank you for posting this information....I for one had never seen it before....For me, 1016's body number, clearly shown in the magazine article,  confirms that it's the Avanti tested by HRM.....

Thank's again for taking the time to post this info, and good luck with your historic Studebaker Avanti!

[Avanti1963!]

mfg, as shown, there are many items which make this conclusive.  The body tag it a very obvious one, but as can be seen, there are several more which only reinforce this is the car.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Avanti1963!

[Nelson]

The body number is taken from the photo portfolio for the Motor Trend Test car. Its pretty much a given that the same car was used for both HR and MT tests. However, there are some obvious clues that show the two are the same car, such as no radiator shroud, damage on the back side of the hood which is consistent with all photos, tow bar brackets welded to the bumper supports etc.

[mfg]

2 hours ago, Avanti1963! said:

mfg, as shown, there are many items which make this conclusive.  The body tag it a very obvious one, but as can be seen, there are several more which only reinforce this is the car.

I agree with your conclusion.

 

[Geoff]

Yep Ed, I see.

So I'm 1025's prior owner's son and just know through what my dad and uncle found in the seventies and eighties. And then my dad and I, have found since 2012 when I wanted to undo my '97 California back road oops.

Between the Granatelli family developing and using 1025 and my dad purchasing it, one Bill Alderman, a So. Cal. engineer who was laid off and moved to Nor. Cal. took 1025 and sold it up there, where my dad came upon it. Bill apparently got into a fender-bender crunch involving the right front fender. A repair done the old way (riveting a sheet of metal in place and glassing onto it) was undone by me and my dad, and we used the fiberglass repair method Mike Baker exemplified at the South Bend meet in 2012.

1025 did leave the factory turquoise over turquoise. My mom (dad's first wife) didn't like the car's color so my dad appeased her and made a change. As a kid I referred to 1025 as "Blue Noisy" (while covering my ears) and I was born in '78, so I'm thinking circa '82 (+/-1) it was redone in a Chrysler Charcoal Grey over black interior. It was still inoperable in early 1990 when my parents separated, though it was shown and awarded at a large meet in Seattle, WA in 1992.

An interesting side note about that Seattle meet. My dad's car, my aunt's Avanti, and a family friend's R2 4-sp. all drove from the SF Bay Area. 1025 would fuel twice as frequently as the two other Avantis. The Granatelli's installed a cam with enough valve overlap that the car spits raw fuel out the pipes.

My dad and uncle spoke to Vince Granatelli more than a handful of times through the eighties. My dad continued to have contact with Vince, and after one of these phone calls received a return call from Andy Granatelli who, after a bit of a grilling, confirmed my dad had Andy's car. From there the conversation went to spinning the stroked 299 cu. in. engine to 8k RPM, Andy using that car to beat 426 MoPars at Riverside in 1/2 mile drag races, the aftermarket tachometer strapped to the steering column (even I saw the evidence of a hose clamp on 25's column), the extensive head work on RS1021, and the fuel pressure gauge being mounted [with pressurized gasoline brought into the cabin] under the radio.

AOAI forum member MrElmTow owns 1025 now and I think he said he plans to open up the engine during the restoration. I wanted to do all of that but I wasn't the car's owner so I had no say.

63R-1025 is the 25th chassis, the 19th (119) body, and the 21st engine (RS1021) all together.

Edited December 30, 2022 by GeoffC312
I typed LF fender earlier. Alderman's accident and repair was on the RF fender.

[mfg]

2 hours ago, Nelson said:

The body number is taken from the photo portfolio for the Motor Trend Test car. Its pretty much a given that the same car was used for both HR and MT tests. However, there are some obvious clues that show the two are the same car, such as no radiator shroud, damage on the back side of the hood which is consistent with all photos, tow bar brackets welded to the bumper supports etc.

Yes, I did see those other clues...frankly though, you had me with the body tag photo!!

Folks I've spoken with ( owners of 63R1025)  thought it was the HRM Avanti...

Being the same color as 1016, low serial number, and with its Granatelli prototype R3 modifications, 1025 seemed like a 'dead cert' to be the HRM test car..

I give you a lot of credit for digging further into the story of the 1963 Hot Rod Magazine R3 Avanti test car!!

 

.

 

[Geoff]

I agree, that is some great research that has been uncovered. I now have more questions and wish Andy G. was still around. I wonder if Andy liked the R3 development and just wanted his own car to have many of the R3 bits? I wonder also if Andy's car ever substituted in place at times?

I do hope MrElmTow does a deep dig on RS1021 because I would love to duplicate its build on another car, give it a strong T-5, do the improved traction Dana tricks (reshuffle the diff clutch packs) and have a fun drag Avanti to match my fun lateral-G Avanti.

[mfg]

7 minutes ago, GeoffC312 said:

Yep Ed, I see.

So I'm 1025's prior owner's son and just know through what my dad and uncle found in the seventies and eighties. And then my dad and I, have found since 2012 when I wanted to undo my '97 California back road oops.

Between the Granatelli family developing and using 1025 and my dad purchasing it, one Bill Alderman, a So. Cal. engineer who was laid off and moved to Nor. Cal. took 1025 and sold it up there, where my dad came upon it. Bill apparently got into a fender-bender crunch involving the left front fender. A repair done the old way (riveting a sheet of metal in place and glassing onto it) was undone by me and my dad, and we used the fiberglass repair method Mike Baker exemplified at the South Bend meet in 2012.

1025 did leave the factory turquoise over turquoise. My mom (dad's first wife) didn't like the car's color so my dad appeased her and made a change. As a kid I referred to 1025 as "Blue Noisy" (while covering my ears) and I was born in '78, so I'm thinking circa '82 (+/-1) it was redone in a Chrysler Charcoal Grey over black interior. It was still inoperable in early 1990 when my parents separated, though it was shown and awarded at a large meet in Seattle, WA in 1992.

An interesting side note about that Seattle meet. My dad's car, my aunt's Avanti, and a family friend's R2 4-sp. all drove from the SF Bay Area. 1025 would fuel twice as frequently as the two other Avantis. The Granatelli's installed a cam with enough valve overlap that the car spits raw fuel out the pipes.

My dad and uncle spoke to Vince Granatelli more than a handful of times through the eighties. My dad continued to have contact with Vince, and after one of these phone calls received a return call from Andy Granatelli who, after a bit of a grilling, confirmed my dad had Andy's car. From there the conversation went to spinning the stroked 299 cu. in. engine to 8k RPM, Andy using that car to beat 426 MoPars at Riverside in 1/2 mile drag races, the aftermarket tachometer strapped to the steering column (even I saw the evidence of a hose clamp on 25's column), the extensive head work on RS1021, and the fuel pressure gauge being mounted [with pressurized gasoline brought into the cabin] under the radio.

AOAI forum member MrElmTow owns 1025 now and I think he said he plans to open up the engine during the restoration. I wanted to do all of that but I wasn't the car's owner so I had no say.

63R-1025 is the 25th chassis, the 19th (119) body, and the 21st engine (RS1021) all together.

Nice hearing from you Geoff, and thanks for your  detailed reply...Although we now know 63R1025 is not the HRM road  test car..it's a very special 'Granatelli Worked Over' Studebaker Avanti, that any enthusiast would be very proud to own!

[Nelson]

Yes, I followed the R1025 story from the get go and had made several comments at the time as I thought I knew the whereabouts of the real test car but didn’t own it although I had looked it over and it looked correct. That was back in the 80’s or90’s. When it came for sale I decided to look at it thinking it probably isn’t what I thought it was. Opening the hood, even with no motor in place, I knew it was THE CAR. It took me five minutes to buy it. I actually thought the tow bar brackets had been added by the first owner until that evening when I looked at the MotorTrend test of the car and I was pretty certain I could see those brackets. As it turned out they were on the road test car in both HRM and MT. The car was parked in 1968 with engine problems. It still has 1968 California tags, still has original heater hoses etc. Above all it still retains all its battle scars. I haven’t been this excited about a Studebaker since I was in my 20’s.

[bob caser]

Thank you, Nelson for the detailed information on R 1016. In 1965 I went to see Andy's son Vince who was doing performance conversions in Santa Monica not far from the Paxton facility. He was operating from a single bay in an existing gas station. At the time he was driving a turquoise 63 with a R3 engine installed and it had Appliance chrome slotted wheels on it. Maybe this was R 1016 or R 1025.

Stay well.

[Nelson]

Bob. That location sounds familiar. I bought a 64 black/red R3 4speed from a dentist back in 1971(?). He told me that Vince did the installation several years prior and described the facility. Probably the one you described.

you’ve been out in the LA area for a long time and around Avantis way back. Do you remember a Gordon York Mills? I think he was the first owner of R1016. I’m trying to gather any information I can on this car. I know Gordon has passed on but wonder if he had a wife or kids I might get in contact with.