R3 Option!

[Desert Driver]

On 1/5/2022 at 7:30 PM, studegary said:

If you want stock in it, you should get the name correct.  It is Depend (even though most people say Depends).😀  Of course, Depend is probably owned by some larger corporation, like P&G (I didn't bother to look it up. - I don't plan on buying the stock.).

Depends (and the brand name is Depend) are made by Kimberly Clark, which also makes Kleenex, Kotex, Huggies and many brands of T.P. Not sure what any of this has to do with Avantis, but Kimberly Clark started what became Midwest Express Airlines which had a commuter partner that served South Bend. Truly TMI 🤪

[mfg]

19 minutes ago, Desert Driver said:

Depends (and the brand name is Depend) are made by Kimberly Clark, which also makes Kleenex, Kotex, Huggies and many brands of T.P. Not sure what any of this has to do with Avantis, but Kimberly Clark started what became Midwest Express Airlines which had a commuter partner that served South Bend. Truly TMI 🤪

I knew we could depend upon there being a Studebaker-South Bend connection!!

[mfg]

On 1/2/2022 at 3:28 PM, regnalbob said:

Sorry, the answer is false.

The Studebaker Confidential Price List for 1963 does not list the R3 as an option for any model 1963 Studebaker.

Studebaker takes precedent over the AMA and you.

 Another document confirming that the Avanti R3 engine was made available by Studebaker Corp. as optional equipment for 1963 is a letter from R. C. Atkinson of Studebaker's General Service Dept. to Bob Palma and George Krem.....A portion of this letter states...." At the present time, the R3 engine has been released for installation in Studebaker's Avanti "

This document is dated... JANUARY 8TH, 1963.....far predating the JUNE 10TH, 1963 document you hung your hat on...

[regnalbob]

17 hours ago, mfg said:

 Another document confirming that the Avanti R3 engine was made available by Studebaker Corp. as optional equipment for 1963 is a letter from R. C. Atkinson of Studebaker's General Service Dept. to Bob Palma and George Krem.....A portion of this letter states...." At the present time, the R3 engine has been released for installation in Studebaker's Avanti "

This document is dated... JANUARY 8TH, 1963.....far predating the JUNE 10TH, 1963 document you hung your hat on...

If the Studebaker Sales Letter is wrong and the R3 was available before August 1, 1963 can you explain why no 1963 Studebakers or Avantis were built with the R3 engine?

[mfg]

1 minute ago, regnalbob said:

If the Studebaker Sales Letter is wrong and the R3 was available before August 1, 1963 can you explain why no 1963 Studebakers or Avantis were built with the R3 engine?

Elementary my dear Watson....None were ordered.

[studegary]

15 minutes ago, mfg said:

Elementary my dear Watson....None were ordered.

That answer does not cover it.  At that time many/most Studebakers, including Avantis were built for stock, not ordered.

[regnalbob]

33 minutes ago, regnalbob said:

If the Studebaker Sales Letter is wrong and the R3 was available before August 1, 1963 can you explain why no 1963 Studebakers or Avantis were built with the R3 engine?

 

31 minutes ago, mfg said:

Elementary my dear Watson....None were ordered.

Minutes of March 11, 1963 meeting of Studebaker department heads.

R-3 Engine

Mr. Detzler inquired as to when the R-3 engine would be available. He said Sales has a few orders and would like an indication of delivery dates.

Mr. Hardig reported that Mr. Granatelli expects to finish one engine for Mr. Egbert by the end of March. Another six are in production and it is expected that basic production delivery of these engines will be scheduled for the latter part of April. Costs are being developed, and before selling prices are set, top management will determine the amount which the Corporation will absorb.

Minutes of April 22, 1963 meeting of Studebaker department heads.

 R3 Engine Pricing

Mr. Detzler wanted to know what the status of this is and when we are going to get the prices. We don’t have many orders for these engines, but they are old and the customers are crying for them. Dr. Lamberti indicated that we would be happy if we didn’t sell one engine. Right now, Mr. Granatelli says it will be in June sometime. He has given Mr. Egbert the date of June 20. He’s running his Novis in the 500. It won’t take him very long after the end of May because he has a lot of stuff in process, and he has almost enough material for the whole 100 engines. He has one engine ready that he will put into a car we sent out there.

Pricing-wise, our suggestion is that we should cover manufacturing costs. Mr. Egbert has all the papers for the pricing for all the ranges, along with the comments of Sales and PR. Their price suggestions vary all the way from $500 to $1,000. Sales recommended $500-$600, and Messrs. Dredge and Granatelli said we could live with about $900. The price includes the whole kit. Our manufacturing costs run about $1,400. Dr. Lamberti suggested that Mr. Rickus write a memo to Mr. Egbert summarizing these points, showing competition prices, PR opinion, manufacturing costs, etc.

Mr. Dredge strongly recommends that we have some engines pretty soon. We talked ourselves out of one blowoff, but he doesn’t think we can talk ourselves out of two.

[mfg]

41 minutes ago, studegary said:

That answer does not cover it.  At that time many/most Studebakers, including Avantis were built for stock, not ordered.

Ha ha!...Avanti R3 powered Studebakers built for stock?...I DON'T THINK SO!!...No Gary, you will have to show us customer orders for R3 powered Studebakers that were refused by the Company before 6/10/63 for your view to be seriously considered!

[mfg]

29 minutes ago, regnalbob said:

 

Minutes of March 11, 1963 meeting of Studebaker department heads.

R-3 Engine

Mr. Detzler inquired as to when the R-3 engine would be available. He said Sales has a few orders and would like an indication of delivery dates.

Mr. Hardig reported that Mr. Granatelli expects to finish one engine for Mr. Egbert by the end of March. Another six are in production and it is expected that basic production delivery of these engines will be scheduled for the latter part of April. Costs are being developed, and before selling prices are set, top management will determine the amount which the Corporation will absorb.

Minutes of April 22, 1963 meeting of Studebaker department heads.

 R3 Engine Pricing

Mr. Detzler wanted to know what the status of this is and when we are going to get the prices. We don’t have many orders for these engines, but they are old and the customers are crying for them. Dr. Lamberti indicated that we would be happy if we didn’t sell one engine. Right now, Mr. Granatelli says it will be in June sometime. He has given Mr. Egbert the date of June 20. He’s running his Novis in the 500. It won’t take him very long after the end of May because he has a lot of stuff in process, and he has almost enough material for the whole 100 engines. He has one engine ready that he will put into a car we sent out there.

Pricing-wise, our suggestion is that we should cover manufacturing costs. Mr. Egbert has all the papers for the pricing for all the ranges, along with the comments of Sales and PR. Their price suggestions vary all the way from $500 to $1,000. Sales recommended $500-$600, and Messrs. Dredge and Granatelli said we could live with about $900. The price includes the whole kit. Our manufacturing costs run about $1,400. Dr. Lamberti suggested that Mr. Rickus write a memo to Mr. Egbert summarizing these points, showing competition prices, PR opinion, manufacturing costs, etc.

Mr. Dredge strongly recommends that we have some engines pretty soon. We talked ourselves out of one blowoff, but he doesn’t think we can talk ourselves out of two.

You have to put your detective hat on and "read between the lines here" regnalbob!, Obviously, sales, at that time, was trying to pressure Paxton into setting aside their racing efforts, and get as many R3 engines as possible into production....How best to do that you may ask!...Say there are 'many' orders for these engines!

To put it another way regnalbob.......SHOW US THOSE "FEW" 1963 MODEL YEAR CUSTOMER ORDERS!