Question regarding resto.

[Endl98]

So I'm going to be doing a little resto on my fathers r2.

Quick history on the car. Father bought it new off the lot right out of the navy. In Merrick , Long Island .

He was always into customizing cars and racing. He had modified the original motor. It blew up in 68. He traded out the 4 sped and the r2 for a Chevy 300 hp 327 and a glide. So my mother could drive it. He also added rear wheel flares . Side pipes fat tires and a pearl paint with neon freak spots back in 73. My parents met in this car. I was almost born in the front seat. I drove this car in high school. And upon graduation when I parked it in 87. It has not seen the road since. My father passed last year and I finally pulled it out of the garage in Houston and brought in back to Long Island. It's back on the road. Sitting 27 years. I dropped a battery and cleaned the carb. It started right up.

So here is the deal. I really want to go back to the original drivetrain. But I don't think the money spent would really increase the value of the car. I have been toying around the idea of a gm LS swap with a Paxton and a 6 speed trans. If it will fit. I'm going to redoing the car along the theme my father painted. It's the only way I have known the car.

I was also told many years ago it's kinda rare. Originally white orange interior R2 with a 4 spd 63R1705 . My dad told me it was 1 of 3 made. In this combo. Don't know of the truth. I have never seen another in this combo. So I don't know if I should return to 100% stock or just upgrade the car to mine and my fathers fashion. I own a repair shop and we do auto repair and custom work so I can go either way.

Would I be wrong in redoing the car custom or should I go back to stock if it is really 1 of 3 .

Any insight guys.

Eric

[Avanti83]

Probably the most difficult to answer and polarizing question that can be asked on any specific marque forum. That said, I think the originality is gone unless you can locate the original drive train. These cars just don't bring big Three money unless exceptionally low mileage originals.

What will make you happy? The most expensive will be replacing the R2/4-speed option. It can be done but they are expensive to build and the blower needs servicing on a regular basis.

The least expensive is keeping the 327 and bolting on what you want. The T56 will bolt right up with a Centerforce flywheel made for the install. How do I know, my 74 has a 70 383 SBC/t56 installed using the OEM GM hydraulic clutch actuating assembly attached to the OEM four speed pedal. A hydraulic TO bearing is a even easier solution. I did mine with the 383 stroker to feed my Muscle Car angst from the 60's.

If I were to do it with a modern driver in mind, I got to car-parts, Ebay, etc. and find a complete LS/T56 drivetrain and drop it in with computer et.al.

Fit shouldn't be an issue, there are a couple of them around, and with your fabrication abilities, not a difficult fit. The beauty of the LS is the computer is a relatively straight forward reprogram that was about $85 the last time I checked.

If you do want to go R2, check this forum for PackardV8, he is well known for his input and Stude V8 builds. I also think there are adapters to mate a 5-speed and possibly T56 to the R2.

One last thought, the most difficult part of the install is the interference between the drivers exhaust manifold and the steering box. It can be solved Studebaker and Avanti Motors did it but just as a "heads up".

BTW, welcome. Keep us in the loop. Bob

Edited May 23, 2015 by Avanti83

[PackardV8]

Agree with Bob. Since there's been so much custom work done and it's a running, driving car, if you plan to sell it the math says leave it as is.

Today, a rebuilt turnkey R2 and 4 speed would be a $5-to-6,000 bill. Then, to reverse the flares and put it back stock, maybe no out-of-pocket cost to you, but lots of labor.

If you plan to keep it, build what you want to drive.

jack vines

[plwindish]

Eric, You've got an interesting dilemma. With your background and business, it sounds like you'd be able to go any direction without too much trouble. Talking with some of the Stude experts first will help you make the decision. I'm willing to bet there were more than 3 63 white R2's with a four speed made. Bob Palma on the Studebaker Forum would be one person that has the information access as to the numbers made.

The value of an original 63 R2 4 speed in that color/ interior combination would be more than the way the car is presently equipped, but what's the cost of returning it to that configuration with a 52 year old drive train? It sounds like the original combination is no longer around so you'd be at period correct, not original. Avanti's are not like Vette, GM, Ford or Mopar muscle car in value, so I don't think it would be an economic advantage to go back to original with the R 2 and 4 speed. Why not "modernize" the car with an LS/ 6 speed swap? You're saying Paxton, but what about the Edelbrock supercharger on an LS? I'd think you'd be following in your fathers footsteps with the car by modernizing it. If you're planning on driving the car, I's seriously consider going with the LS. I faced a similar situation with my 76, but it still had the original 400. I decided to keep it original and had the motor completely rebuilt, modernized and warmed up to 365 HP from the 175 HP and putting a 200R4 behind it. For what I spent getting it done, I could have done an LS swap. You don't have the original drive train, so you can really go any direction. Why not put in more power with a modern drivetrain?

Good luck with your decision.

[Gunslinger]

I'm not a purist so take that into consideration. To my way of thinking to return it to original will take more money than you could ever get out of the car down the road. If you don't ever plan on reselling the car than the financial outlay doesn't matter...do what you want.

You've already got fender flares...unless you don't like them the bodywork to eliminate them and get back to the original wheel opening dimensions will be expensive. FYI...I've never been enamored of flares on Avantis but that's a personal preference.

While itself not inexpensive, an LS conversion would be a great thing to do...power, modern ignition and induction, weight off the front where it's most needed. If you wanted a supercharger, instead of a Paxton, look into Vortech as they have systems designed and engineered for the LS-series engines. You might also look into a 5- or 6-speed manual transmission or an automatic designed to mate with an LS engine.

That's a lot of modifications and cash outlay, so you really have to give it some serious thought, make a plan and follow it.

[Endl98]

Thank you for your responses.

I too am not a purist. I have built many cars and most are not stock. Currently I own a 70 nova Back halved , BBC 496 with a 2004r overdrive, and I'm finishing my 63 Nova wagon . It is a crate fuel injected LS3 525hp , 4L70, Dana 60, mini tubbed , TCI M2 front clip and a TCI 4 link out back. I also installed vintage air. and rewired the complete car.

So installing a LS with a charger and a 6 speed , my be in the future For my Dad's Avanti. I'm going to Remove the PG trans and install a 2004r So its easier to drive. I have a unit on the shelf. and its a easy install. I don't think going back to a stock motor and trans would yield $10k in value. However I don't plan on selling this car. I like the flares my father made. From behind its killer looking . He mimicked the factory openings , just made them wider. Actually I think real Avanti's look funny, being this is the only way I've seen them.

I have never seen another 4spd R2 with a orange gut, I have seen a few auto's with orange interiors . For many years my father had letters sent to him by the Avanti corp with interest in taking his car on trade for a new model. Don't know if that was a normal thing back in the day. I can tell you that he did buy a showroom floor model. I was always told that the dealer was not supposed to sell them . Don't know the truth in that. With my passion for the car I doubt I'll sell it . Just keep on going in my fathers spirit of customizing it.

[lschuc]

Eric, I think that there were more than three white with orange interior and 4-speeds made. The first seven were all white exteriors with orange interiors, and a few were automatics, but not all. From the museum's production statistics for 1963, there were 240 white Avantis with orange interiors.

It doesn't break down the interior & exterior color combinations with engine and transmission combinations. But for 1963, there were a total of 643 Avantis built with the R2 engine and four speed transmission.

Hope you can send me photos of the car while your dad was driving it, and what it looks like today, and then follow up with your restoration in photos and words. We would love to show your father's Avanti in Avanti Magazine.

[Endl98]

That would be awesome. I have a few photos new when my dad bought it, some from the 70's and 80's when I drove it. driving this car today is like dating a old high school girl friend.