1971 avanti questions

[ken1007]

I am contemplating restoring a 71 Avanti II. After several years of Studebaker restoration, I am familiar with what parts to get and where to get them but have several questions about the 1971 Avanti II that is under consideration, mainly:

1. Are there shop, body, and chassis manuals, if so who has them and are they as complete as the studebaker manuals?

2. SI has some parts, but not many Avanti II parts, who are the principle suppliers?

3. On the 71 is the battery properly mounted in the trunk, if so should it be contained?

4. Does the 71 have ignition suppression shielding, if so what does it look like, as it was not apparent on the 71 (and the radio did not work)?

5. What about engine, transmission parts, is there a separate GM book for that, and does it make more sense to replace with crate motor, transmission vs. overhaul?

6. The AC compressor is missing, what type compressor is used and who might have it and what ever brackets may be used?

Finally does anyone have pictures of the engine compartment of a 71 that they could email (renda1007@yahoo.com). I am familiar with 63-64 motor compartment and this 71 looks like it is missing some parts and/ or has some "jack-leg" changes.

Any help would be appreciated Ken, Deltaville Va

[Gunslinger]

1. There are no body, shop or chassis manuals...use the Studebaker manual. Your car is essentially all leftover Studebaker parts outside of the engine, transmission and some detail items.

2. SI will carry many parts you need and so will many vendors. The most common vendors to use are Jon Myers and Nostalgic Motors. There are others as well...look through Avanti Magazine for their ads.

3. The battery is properly located under the hood on the left inner apron...same as a '64 Avanti. Someone else has relocated yours to the trunk. If you leave it in the trunk, it should be in a container made for the purpose. You can find them in a speed shop or online from Summit Racing or Jegs. You should use an extra heavy duty positive cable to the battery due to the distance.

4. I can't say for sure whether it came from the factory with ignition shielding, but it should have since fiberglass has no radio interference blocking capability. You can get reproduction shielding from vendors like Corvette Central, Ecklers, Corvette America, or any other Corvette parts vendor. Early Avanti Motors sales literature shows no RFI shielding. Whether that's for the photos used or they simply didn't install it I have no idea.

5. Any tech manual for small block Chevy engines and Hydramatic transmissions will tell you what you need. Find them in Pep Boys, Advance Auto, Auto Zone, etc. Whether to overhaul or replace is up to you. In my case with my '70, I found it more cost effective to buy a crate engine and replaced the old Borg Warner Power Shift (used until 1970) with a 700R4. Your choice whether to do that. You do have many choices of what level of power with crate engines. You can do the same by overhauling the original engine but as I said, going crate is probably more cost effective. You have to assume your engine will need an overbore and head rebuilding...besides parts cost, shop and machining time is very expensive.

6. Your car probably came with a York a/c compressor. Avanti Motors did switch to the GM A-6 compressor, but I don't think it was until later than '71. Go with a Sanden type compressor or a later GM R-4 compressor. If you're determined to make it as built, York compressors are available but they're heavy and not as efficient as current designs. York brackets may not be easy to locate for an Avanti application. Check with Jon Myers or Nostalgic.

I've sent a photo to your email address of what my car's engine bay looked like when I bought...pretty sad. There were some equipment changes about the 1971 model year so what my car has may not be correct in a '71, but I think it's still essentially the same.

[WayneC]

Congratulations! I too, own a '71. You don't mention whether you have previously owned any Studebakers.

1. Are there shop, body, and chassis manuals, if so who has them and are they as complete as the studebaker manuals?

No, the Stude manuals still apply to almost everything except the engine & transmission

2. SI has some parts, but not many Avanti II parts, who are the principle suppliers?

The primary source for parts is Nostalgic Motor Cars in Wixom MI; unfortunately their website seems

to have been abandoned about 4 years ago, but you can reach them at 1-800-avanti1. They bought out

nearly all the pre-1985 Avanti 2 parts from Avanti Motor Co when Avanti went out of business.

Another source is eBay, and in fact Nostalgic often lists parts there under the name "Avantilady"

Nostalgic can also provide you with a copy of the original build order for your Avanti.

Here is another parts vendor: http://www.avantiparts.biz/servlet/StoreFront

Other vendors do carry parts, especially those parts that are common to the original Stude Avanti,

and there are some aftermarket parts like exhaust systems.

Some vendors advertise in Avanti Magazine, the AOAI club publication: https://www.aoai.org/shop/home.php?cat=1

They also sell a set of 5 CD's of all their issues (I have stacks of the magazine, so I haven't popped for the Cd's): https://www.aoai.org/shop/home.php?cat=3

Here is a website with a lot of good info: http://www.studebaker-info.org/

3. On the 71 is the battery properly mounted in the trunk, if so should it be contained?

No. it is normally inside the left front fender (front corner). Trunk batteries should be vented

outside the car, but you'd have to make your own provisions to do that.

4. Does the 71 have ignition suppression shielding, if so what does it look like, as it was not apparent on the 71 (and the radio did not work)?

Mine did not have shielding, and it hasn't been a problem. Corvette ignition shielding could be added if you so desire. Actually, shielding probably does more for other nearby vehicles than for yours. I converted my car to an an HEI distributor, IIRC (it's been a long time, I've owned several Avanti's, and converted several in those years).

5. What about engine, transmission parts, is there a separate GM book for that, and does it make more sense to replace with crate motor, transmission vs. overhaul?

Chevy small blocks are Chevy small blocks, there is tons of info on them; my tranny is a Turbo400, yours

probably is, too.

If you are concerned with originality, then rebuild the engine, otherwise it is probably more cost-effective

to go with a crate engine (like a ZZ4), and a 4-speed Chevy automatic would improve your mileage (700R4, for example). At one point, I replaced my original engine with one from an '84 Corvette.

6. The AC compressor is missing, what type compressor is used and who might have it and what ever brackets may be used?

I'm having a senior moment, I can't remember the maker of the a/c compressor (it's the square aluminum casting pump used by Stude and Ford). But I had a '69 at one time that used the GM a/c compressor (apparently Avanti used whatever was available and cheapest at the time of build)... brackets are readily available for those; any good a/c shop can probably do the plumbing for either type.

Finally does anyone have pictures of the engine compartment of a 71 that they could email (renda1007@yahoo.com).

I am familiar with 63-64 motor compartment and this 71 looks like it is missing some parts and/or has some "jack-leg" changes.

I can send you some photos of my engine compartment, although it would take a day or two to get better pics of the engine compartment (which isn't in as good condition as the body & interior), but as I said, it's not completely original. I'll attach two photos I was able to find quickly.

Here is a webpage with a number of Avanti photos: http://www.studebaker-info.org/

Any help would be appreciated Ken, Deltaville Va

You're at the right place to ask. Good place to post when you've found a parts source or made a satisfying

modification, also, its the way we all learn more about our Avanti's.

Wayne

[WayneC]

I found a few photos of my old '66 Avanti engine compartment, but taken in 1977 after I had changed the engine,

intake, carb, and upgraded to an HEI distributor.

I attached a photo that's been cropped and edited to try to better show the a/c compressor bracket. Note the rear support to the top of the York a/c compressor on this '66 is different than my '71; I didn't recall that.

IIRC, the main bracket for the compressor is a heavy-duty (probably 1/4" thick) wide L-shaped bracket that bolts to the block and to a bracket on the right exhaust manifold (which also holds the alternator pivot), and it spans/bolts to the underside of the compressor. Note also that a small bracket bolted to the compressor is the anchor for the alternator belt adjustment arm, and that there is an idler pulley on the left for the a/c belt; the power steering mounts low on the left front of the engine.

The original a/c brackets will probably be very tough to come by, In fact, even back then they were nearly impossible to find; you're better off to go hunting in local junkyards for a Chevy setup that looks as though it would work.

Side story: back then (1976) I had given my original engine to a rebuilder recommended by a friend who gave him a lot of business for building professional race car engines. I went there with my friend to discuss it. He asked for all the brackets and accessories for use when he dyno'd the engine after the rebuild (they were needed for the p/s pump and alternator); he said the timeframe depended on his workload, but should be just a few weeks. Dumb me, I didn't discuss price with him... at the time you could have a Chevy sb V8 removed, rebuilt, and re-installed within a few days for under $800 at most shops (but I was doing the R&R myself). I figured this guy would be a bit higher considering the dyno run (I assumed perhaps as much as $1200), but wouldn't gouge me because of his vendor relationship with my friend. It was to be rebuilt to stock factory specs. You know what they say about "assuming". When he finally completed the work (over 4 months later!), he presented a bill for $2500; I was already upset about the timeframe, and I told him I couldn't afford it, he could keep the engine, just return my brackets. He refused, so I filed suit in small claims court and the day before the court hearing he gave me back the brackets. I bought an engine out of a wrecked new Malibu in a junkyard with only about 2k miles on it for $500 delivered to my door (or was it $400?). I installed that, adding a Holley intake & carb (sold the original Malibu parts), which worked out very nicely.

[ken1007]

Thanks for alot of good informaiton and pics about the 71. I think i'll go with crate engine and transmisison. Since 1995 I've had 7 studebaker engines overhauled, the last one (packard 352) costing triple a crate engine. I still have 5 of those cars and am familiar with Studebaker vendors, but know little or nothing about Avanti dealers, just joined Avanti owners. If you think of any more please feel free to email to the forum or directly at renda1007@yahoo.com. Ken, Deltaville, Va

[Skip Lackie]

You didn’t say whether you suspected the original Chevy engine was worn out, or whether you were looking for more performance. In either of those cases, the advice above about crate engines is probably the way to go. But if the existing engine is in good shape, there may be no reason to replace it. Chevy engines carry a model/displacement/horsepower/date code on the front of the block, right in front of the right-hand head. It’s probably a standard Malibu or Caprice 350, but one never knows. Rumors persist that a few high-performance Corvette engines were installed on special order (but I’ve never seen one).

[BobS]

Thanks for alot of good informaiton and pics about the 71. I think i'll go with crate engine and transmisison. Since 1995 I've had 7 studebaker engines overhauled, the last one (packard 352) costing triple a crate engine. I still have 5 of those cars and am familiar with Studebaker vendors, but know little or nothing about Avanti dealers, just joined Avanti owners. If you think of any more please feel free to email to the forum or directly at renda1007@yahoo.com. Ken, Deltaville, Va

Ken

From your description, I'm not sure what your final goal is nor the amount of money you want to spend.

My data (remember Folks like Gunslinger and others on this forum are heads above me in knowledge about these cars), says that the 76 should be the last year of the 400 Cu in SBC with a GM three speed auto and probably a 3:54 rear end.

If that's the case and the tranny and rear end are in decent shape then a simple crate swap is the least expensive option. If your experience on tuning SBC's is limited then let me suggest a dyno tuned rebuilt SBC ready to run. 350 derivatives would be the best choice and engine blocks from 1998 and down are a bolt in although be careful which year you choose as the fuel pump drive access on the block was eliminated as GM went to fuel injection.

If you have a 400 you may want to see the cost of rebuilding it as you get more displacement and less valve shrouding but the rebuilder needs to be familiar with 400 SBC's as they require the correct head gaskets etc. to eliminate cooling issues but are the torque monsters of the SBC family.

If a more exotic build is desired as in building a more optimum street car then here are a couple of suggestions from my experience building my 83.

An 350ish (355, 383 etc) SBC can be bought dyno tuned ready to run with aluminum heads, water pump, radiator and the battery in the trunk which will take several hundred pounds off the front end which helps a lot. Price range approx $3500-4000 for 400HP.

That engine coupled with a 700R4 if you have a 3:54 rear end will give you great acceleration with an nice highway friendly overdrive. Price $1500 I don't want to spark the 700R4 vs 200R4 debate which is what I have but I'm also running a 4:10 posi rear end. If you rear end is an economy under 3:00 then you want to consider an upgrade $950 rebuilt with posi and new gears.

Posi rear end, If you don't have one, you would be looking at $800 to upgrade, $950 with new gears for ratio change with posi.

The latter options would yield a much better handling and running street car but are not inexpensive.

Just wanted to take a minute or two to add some pricing options to the post.

Bob

Edited November 13, 2010 by BobS

[Paul K.]

Avanti Motors made a quite a few running changes. I have read that the SBC 400 was offered from '72-77. Their advertising boasted Corvette motors through '71 and the vehicles had the Corvette finned valve covers. I also read that if you ordered a 4-speed, during those years you got a 2-barrel carb and automatics got the 4 barrel. '74 was the last year for the 4-speed. I just purchased my third Avanti II a '74, The two priors were another '74 and a '76. They all had/have 400s and 3:31 rear ends with automatic transmissions. The '76 was the only one with ignition shielding and it really dresses up the engine compartment. It also keeps the ignition wires contained in housings that hug the side of the block. This is a plus on the driver's side where things are really tight near the steering box.

[Gunslinger]

Rumors persist that a few high-performance Corvette engines were installed on special order (but I’ve never seen one).

I hear those rumors as well, but have yet to see an LT-1 or similar engine in an Avanti or documentation such as a build sheet backing up the claim. While Avanti Motors would buy maybe a six month supply of engines to get a quantity discount, rumors persist about special order engines. I've even seen speculation that Avanti Motors would buy and install an LT-1 engine simply because regular crate engines weren't available when needed. I guess the only way to determine for sure would be to examine every build sheet for every car made and compare the engine numbers to GM data codes for small block Chevys. Not a fun job I'm sure.

Until someone can provide documentation of such installations...not just an Avanti with an LT-1 which could have been retrofitted at any time over the years, I'll classify it as no more than an urban legend.

[Gunslinger]

Avanti Motors made a quite a few running changes. I have read that the SBC 400 was offered from '72-77. Their advertising boasted Corvette motors through '71 and the vehicles had the Corvette finned valve covers. I also read that if you ordered a 4-speed, during those years you got a 2-barrel carb and automatics got the 4 barrel. '74 was the last year for the 4-speed. I just purchased my third Avanti II a '74, The two priors were another '74 and a '76. They all had/have 400s and 3:31 rear ends with automatic transmissions. The '76 was the only one with ignition shielding and it really dresses up the engine compartment. It also keeps the ignition wires contained in housings that hug the side of the block. This is a plus on the driver's side where things are really tight near the steering box.

I believe all 400's came with a 2-barrel carburetor. It had something to do with idle issues along with emissions. Many rebuilders don't like 400's as they can be very touchy as due to very thin water jackets (or steam vents as they're called), they are very prone to heat issues...already a headache in an Avanti. A 400 can be a torque monster (they're basically station wagon engines made for pulling), but any 400 engine that is a candidate for rebuilding has to be checked very carefully for jacket thickness and strength. It's one thing to find a 400 engine to rebuild, but it's something to find one that can be built up and hold together.

For most purposes a 350 is a better block to start with.

[Paul K.]

Yes, the 400s can have the problems mentioned. I have gotten lucky on my first '74 and '76. They never ran hot even the '74 with the A/C on going to the 40th Avanti anniversary in Palm Springs back in '01. I rebuilt the '76 400 after my ex-girlfriend (stress on EX!) practically blew it up. The block was clean and rebuilt fine.

All three of my Avanti IIs with the 400s had the Rochester 4 bbl carbs and two had the Avanti factory carb spec sheets to go with them factory paperwork. I am sure they came with the 4 bbl carbs when new.

[Skip Lackie]

Yes, the 400s can have the problems mentioned. I have gotten lucky on my first '74 and '76. They never ran hot even the '74 with the A/C on going to the 40th Avanti anniversary in Palm Springs back in '01. I rebuilt the '76 400 after my ex-girlfriend (stress on EX!) practically blew it up. The block was clean and rebuilt fine.

All three of my Avanti IIs with the 400s had the Rochester 4 bbl carbs and two had the Avanti factory carb spec sheets to go with them factory paperwork. I am sure they came with the 4 bbl carbs when new.

Yup, me too. My 74 came with a 400 and a 4-bbl Rochester. Never had any overheating problems – in fact, it’s the only “Studebaker” I’ve ever owned that didn’t overheat.

[BobS]

Yup, me too. My 74 came with a 400 and a 4-bbl Rochester. Never had any overheating problems – in fact, it's the only "Studebaker" I've ever owned that didn't overheat.

IIRC the overheating issues with the 400 were due to the siamized cylinders and were solved by adding steam vents to the block and heads. The overheating problems usually occur after a rebuild when the incorrect head gaskets are used in the rebuild. A lot of 400's have been raced and held up under a lot more stressfull use than it would see in an Avanti.

My opinion (worth every cent I am charging) now that I own an Avanti II with a 400 HP 355 SBC is the lack of cooling available in stock form. My engine has aluminum heads, aluminum water pump with a high performance flex fan, and an aluminum radiator the size of the original Avanti unit. In cool weather it take a long time to heat up (no heat riser) and in local temperatures over 85 degrees it will run all day or idle for long periods of time without exceeding 190 deg F. That's the thermostat temp. I don't think the 400 would be enough different in those circumstances.

However, If I were buying a rebuilt, I'd probably do a 350ish just because there are so many to choose from but I wouldn't be afraid to rebuild a 400 if I owned it and it was in good shape. I'd let cost be my criteria in that case.

I would not be afraid to drive mine in 100 deg days, just don't have 'em in Michigan.

Bob

Edited November 14, 2010 by BobS