Avanti II mods

[Kellerbear]

I have a '78 Avanti II and am considering some projects over the next few months.

1. to restore rake to similar to original, has anyone heard of "drop spindles"? A buddy who talked to someone at a show heard about it.

2. I'd like to add an original style hood ornament and see them in Avanti Int'l -- anyone done that and how do they attach?

3. Any advice on the Turner brake conversion? My car can use some extra stopping power.

4. Are there modifications or kits available to reduce steering turns, lock to lock?

Thanks

Tim

[WayneC]

I have a '78 Avanti II and am considering some projects over the next few months.

1. to restore rake to similar to original, has anyone heard of "drop spindles"? A buddy who talked to someone at a show heard about it.

2. I'd like to add an original style hood ornament and see them in Avanti Int'l -- anyone done that and how do they attach?

3. Any advice on the Turner brake conversion? My car can use some extra stopping power.

4. Are there modifications or kits available to reduce steering turns, lock to lock?

Thanks

Tim

1. Yes, I've heard of drop spindles, usually in reference to Ford model A hot rods; but no, I haven't heard of

dropped spindles being available for Stude Avanti suspensions, but it's possible I suppose. Or, you could install an LT1 fuel setup to provide more hood-to-engine clearance, and remove (progressively more toward the front end) some of the body spacers; that would be very expensive, but coupled with an overdrive tranny the fuel economy should improve greatly. Either way, the fender openings would overlap the tire tops a bit, which might be problematic if you hit a bump while turning into the driveway! You could also consider a lower profile tire on the front only, if you can find any to fit without rubbing... but I wouldn't recommend mixing tire profiles/tread pattern on the same vehicle.

Dropped spindles are probably available for later Avanti's built on GM chassis (87-up).

Check this link (IndyJimW's post in the middle of the page) http://tinyurl.com/2azfa2

If you know a talented machinist, it might be possible to machine a Stude drop spindle from billet steel if

you provide him with pristine original spindles to use to take measurements (high $$$$, though). But if

I'm not mistaken (I might be), spindles are machined from drop-forged castings to add strength.

2. The hood ornament has six posts that extend through the hood, with stamped nuts on the underside; it

should just be a matter of finding an Avanti owner with the ornament who'll let you remove his ornament and make a paper pattern from his hood of the hole positions.

3. Stock brakes are fine if kept in good maintenance and you use decent pads. I haven't done the Turner conversion, but many have and like it. One Avanti enthusiast decided he wanted newer technology than the Turner kit and designed his own conversion; you might try contacting him to see if you like his approach better and whether he sells the adapters (last I recall, he was trying to determine if it was a viable side business). Try this link to the Stude Avanti board for more info: http://tinyurl.com/2h8qlf

4. Yes, $100 here: http://tinyurl.com/2e3scu (bottom of that page; stock steering knuckle with spindle is in the center of that page)

Edited November 13, 2007 by WayneC

[jmenacker]

I rebuilt both front and rear brakes on our '82 and agree with Wayne about the stock disc/drum set up being fine for most normal driving. About a month ago we crested a hill on a highway doing 70 mph and came across a standstill traffic jam. The car stopped quickly without pulling to either side or shuddering. That being said, the Cobra brake set up tooled by Tom is stunning. Cobra Brake Thread

We also had the quick steering arms referenced by Wayne installed -- highly recommended.

Joe Menacker

RQB 3496

[Paul K.]

To get the full look of dropping the Avant IIs to resemble the Stude the fender fillers have to be removed. This is the area where many people stop because it has now become a body project and expense. The fender fillers when removed have a visual effect that looks right.

[Gunslinger]

What wheels do you have for your car or will install? Before my '70 was redone, I considered the Turner or Steeltech brake conversions. Both told me their systems either would not be compatible or they didn't think their conversions would be compatible with Magnum 500 wheels, which my car has. I didn't want to change to a bigger diameter wheel as I had already bought new tires for the car and didn't care to do that again plus new wheels, plus I like the look of the Magnum 500 on an Avanti.

The stock brake system works well so I really had no need to change it, but had the Magnum 500's been compatible, I still may have done the conversion.

[Kellerbear]

What wheels do you have for your car or will install? Before my '70 was redone, I considered the Turner or Steeltech brake conversions. Both told me their systems either would not be compatible or they didn't think their conversions would be compatible with Magnum 500 wheels, which my car has. I didn't want to change to a bigger diameter wheel as I had already bought new tires for the car and didn't care to do that again plus new wheels, plus I like the look of the Magnum 500 on an Avanti.

The stock brake system works well so I really had no need to change it, but had the Magnum 500's been compatible, I still may have done the conversion.

Thanks. I have wire wheels on my car. The brakes just seem very weak, maybe I'm comparing them to new car brake effectiveness. Tim

[Kellerbear]

1. Yes, I've heard of drop spindles, usually in reference to Ford model A hot rods; but no, I haven't heard of

dropped spindles being available for Stude Avanti suspensions, but it's possible I suppose. Or, you could install an LT1 fuel setup to provide more hood-to-engine clearance, and remove (progressively more toward the front end) some of the body spacers; that would be very expensive, but coupled with an overdrive tranny the fuel economy should improve greatly. Either way, the fender openings would overlap the tire tops a bit, which might be problematic if you hit a bump while turning into the driveway! You could also consider a lower profile tire on the front only, if you can find any to fit without rubbing... but I wouldn't recommend mixing tire profiles/tread pattern on the same vehicle.

Dropped spindles are probably available for later Avanti's built on GM chassis (87-up).

Check this link (IndyJimW's post in the middle of the page) http://tinyurl.com/2azfa2

If you know a talented machinist, it might be possible to machine a Stude drop spindle from billet steel if

you provide him with pristine original spindles to use to take measurements (high $$$$, though). But if

I'm not mistaken (I might be), spindles are machined from drop-forged castings to add strength.

2. The hood ornament has six posts that extend through the hood, with stamped nuts on the underside; it

should just be a matter of finding an Avanti owner with the ornament who'll let you remove his ornament and make a paper pattern from his hood of the hole positions.

3. Stock brakes are fine if kept in good maintenance and you use decent pads. I haven't done the Turner conversion, but many have and like it. One Avanti enthusiast decided he wanted newer technology than the Turner kit and designed his own conversion; you might try contacting him to see if you like his approach better and whether he sells the adapters (last I recall, he was trying to determine if it was a viable side business). Try this link to the Stude Avanti board for more info: http://tinyurl.com/2h8qlf

4. Yes, $100 here: http://tinyurl.com/2e3scu (bottom of that page; stock steering knuckle with spindle is in the center of that page)

Many thanks for all the great counsel. I'm new to Avanti and old car ownership and this forum is so helpful. I'll ask a novice question -- are stock Avanti II brakes unique enough that my trusted local mechanic couldn't reliably check and repair them? Thanks again! Tim

[profaqualung]

Kellerbear -

I am somewhat hesitant to mention this method of dropping the front end - in the past it has created a fair amount of flack directed towards me. All I can say in response to the flack is this - it has worked for me.

What I did, was to cut [grinding wheel] one coil out of each of the front springs. Mounted the Magnum 500 rims with 215X65R15 in front - 225X65R15 in back [bridgestone Potenza G009 front & rear] - had the alignment checked - and have then proceeded to 15,437 miles on it in the last 10 months. It runs down the road like it was on rails, and has the stance of a 63 or 64.

The only complaint I had, was ground clearance - but once I replaced the bolts[went to 'buttonheads] on the x-member under the trans, and installed new mufflers and exhaust, the clearance is basically the same as my 69 Vette [with sidepipes] - I take speed bumps in parking lots at slow speed and at an angle - no more bottoming out.

I am also using the steering arms suggested by Wayne - an excellent suggestion.

Good Luck

Thomas

[Kellerbear]

Sorry if I'm repeating -- still learning forum functionality.

I have wire wheels on my car. The brakes just seem very weak, maybe I'm comparing them to new car brake effectiveness. I have a local garage that I trust -- are Avanti II brakes unique enough that they wouldn't be able to check and repair brakes if necessary?

Thanks everyone for your generous advice. I'm new to Avanti ownership and this is all so helpful.

Tim "Kellerbear"

[Gunslinger]

Sorry if I'm repeating -- still learning forum functionality.

I have wire wheels on my car. The brakes just seem very weak, maybe I'm comparing them to new car brake effectiveness. I have a local garage that I trust -- are Avanti II brakes unique enough that they wouldn't be able to check and repair brakes if necessary?

Thanks everyone for your generous advice. I'm new to Avanti ownership and this is all so helpful.

Tim "Kellerbear"

The disc brakes used by Studebaker and Avanti Motors present no problem to any good tech. There is some variation from other designs but nothing to cause alarm. Bendix licensed the design from Dunlop and they're essentially lifted from many Jaguars of the period as well as some Datsuns from the mid-60's. Actually, the calipers on my '70, instead of saying Bendix have Sumitomo cast into the caliper housings. It just shows the design was licensed to other companies as well and Avanti Motors must have purchased them from whatever supplier could meet the design specs.

I do understand what you say about comparing them to new car effectiveness. They do have a different feel to the brakes compared to newer cars, but brake design is far more advanced now. The disc brakes on these Avanti's were adapted from Jaguars which weight significantly less and gave a good safety margin. Put those same brakes on a much heavier Avanti and while the design is certainly adequate, the safety factor is less. Basically it's an adequate brake system, but toward the outer edge of its capabilities.

The stock system will do all that's reasonably requested of it. If you want to upgrade, have at it. Make sure your wheels will clear the upgraded calipers. If they don't, that's an expense that really boosts the total cost of the conversion.

[WayneC]

The disc brakes used by Studebaker and Avanti Motors present no problem to any good tech.

I agree. But the pads are very important... I've had some very poor experiences with

pads from local parts stores. I buy mine from Nostalgic Motors now. Also very important is that the

pad's path through the caliper is clean/smooth, that the rotors are not glazed or burned and at least 0.330 inches thick where the pads contact them, cylinder bores are not corroded, and that the calipers are properly shimmed to ensure they are parallel to the rotor and have equal spacing from it on both sides. There is no sound warning when the pads are getting thin (like there is in many modern cars), so you do have to check them occasionally and replace them when they get worn down.

Edited November 14, 2007 by WayneC

[theGman]

Kbear,

I have modified my '81 a bit. I added the hood ornament and the side emblems, took off the ugly cow catcher bumper and bought a new full front grille, to fill in the holes from the cow catcher. I tried to use other things to fill in the hole, but they all looked bad, so I sprung for the grille. Or is it "grill"?.

I bought a new set of original size Magnum 500s, 15 x 6, with stock size tires. I believe they are 205s.

I installed the Turner front brakes with no clearance issues.

I had to have my son touch up the red paint, since I sold an original luggage rack and he had to fill the holes and paint the lid anyway, so I removed the "II" emblems front and rear.

I wanted to ID the '81 as a "II" but never liked the factory deal, since the "II"s are a little different color and are upside down, cocked, etc. often, so what to do?

As you probably know, the hood emblem consists of the main chrome thing and a squarish plastic piece sold seperately. I bought a plain black plastic center piece, not the "S" ones which were on the originals. Then, I bought a new "II" and mounted it in the center of the otherwise solid black hood piece. Looks good to me; the car has a "II" on it, but just in that one place.

If you want to remove the "II"s ever, and, if you are a real nut, to do a "perfect" job on the trunk lid, you should move the "Avanti" chrome emblem over to the right, so you don't have the gap there where the "II" was. I didn't do that, but it would have looked just a little better.

I also changed the trunk backup lights into brake lights, and mounted 2 smallish Auto Zone rectangular driving lights alongside the license place vertically for new backups. Looks good and it is a lot brighter too!

Paul G.

[Kellerbear]

Was the grille/grill hard to change? Previous owner of mine removed the cattle catcher and now grille has two square openings that look odd.

My car has wire wheels with knockoffs. I really like the Magnum wheels, but am getting used to the wires.

The car is black and can use a little trim to bring out the lines, I think. I'm thinking about adding the door guard strips along the side (many cars have them) and help break up the blackness.

Tim

[SBCA96]

Thanks Wayne and Joe for the kind words, yes Wayne I am "in production", but at the moment I

am waiting for feedback on fitment from the first two sets sent out. I want to make sure that the

tolerance between Studebakers allows for the measurements I took off MY Avanti. Just because

they fit MY Avanti, doesnt mean they will fit all Avantis/Studebakers. I am also waiting for some

measurements promised to me from one of the first two. Also, it should be pointed out that the

Mustang GT brakes WILL fit inside a 15 inch wheel, though I would suggest trying your current

rims on a friends 94-04 Mustang to make sure they clear the caliper to the face of the wheel, not

the wheel rim. Mustangs are everywhere, so even ask someone at a car show.

It is interesting to note that from the install instructions on Turners website, the wear indicators

must be ground off the pads in order to clear the Turner install bracket, so much for the modern

early warning conveinence.

As for lowering the Avanti, if you did a combination of lowering the body on the frame, and also

cutting the springs (or buying some Eaton lowering springs http://www.eatonsprings.com/) that

should lessen any ride issues. When we lowered my Dad's '69 Avanti II (Wayne's old Avanti) it

was done by only cutting the springs. This resulted in a bumpy ride, as the lower arms will now

hit the rubber bushings. We also cut the fenders out, Avanti II's are known to crack fenders on

a turn/bump.

Tom

There is no sound warning when the pads are getting thin (like there is in many modern cars), so you do have to check them occasionally and replace them when they get worn down.

[Kellerbear]

Kbear,

I have modified my '81 a bit. I added the hood ornament and the side emblems, took off the ugly cow catcher bumper and bought a new full front grille, to fill in the holes from the cow catcher. I tried to use other things to fill in the hole, but they all looked bad, so I sprung for the grille. Or is it "grill"?.

I bought a new set of original size Magnum 500s, 15 x 6, with stock size tires. I believe they are 205s.

I installed the Turner front brakes with no clearance issues.

I had to have my son touch up the red paint, since I sold an original luggage rack and he had to fill the holes and paint the lid anyway, so I removed the "II" emblems front and rear.

I wanted to ID the '81 as a "II" but never liked the factory deal, since the "II"s are a little different color and are upside down, cocked, etc. often, so what to do?

As you probably know, the hood emblem consists of the main chrome thing and a squarish plastic piece sold seperately. I bought a plain black plastic center piece, not the "S" ones which were on the originals. Then, I bought a new "II" and mounted it in the center of the otherwise solid black hood piece. Looks good to me; the car has a "II" on it, but just in that one place.

If you want to remove the "II"s ever, and, if you are a real nut, to do a "perfect" job on the trunk lid, you should move the "Avanti" chrome emblem over to the right, so you don't have the gap there where the "II" was. I didn't do that, but it would have looked just a little better.

I also changed the trunk backup lights into brake lights, and mounted 2 smallish Auto Zone rectangular driving lights alongside the license place vertically for new backups. Looks good and it is a lot brighter too!

Paul G.

Paul, when you added the hood ornament, you had to drill holes in your hood?

Tim

[theGman]

Paul, when you added the hood ornament, you had to drill holes in your hood?

Tim

Yes, I believe it was 6 small holes. I got the exact front to back location by measuring an Avanti at a car show. If you ever need this info, let me know and I'll check to see how far back from the front of the hood it is to the front of the emblem. Be careful when you drill the holes so the emblem isn't crooked.

The grille is easy to change; there are (I forget exactly) about 8 screws holding it on, easily removed by just laying down in front of the car. I too had the original grill with the 2 cutouts....I tried different ways to "patch" the holes, but they all looked bad, so I sprung for the $225 new one. It really makes a difference with the new "shiny" grille in there....was the biggest single improvement, believe it or not. (I didn't think it would make much difference)

When I installed the new one I went to the hardware store and bought some new stainless steel mounting screws and stuff. Also, you will have to drill a few new holes in the area where the cutouts are, because the original grille mounted right over the cutout. Most of the holes line up with the new grille though.

Removing etc. is no big deal, since the grilles are just screwed into holes in the fibreglass. I am a little on the big side at 6'2" with big hands, and even I had no problems doing this. While you have the old grille off it's a good time to poke around and see if everything in that area is in good shape.

If you don't want to change grilles you can add fog or driving lights to obscure the cutouts.

Paul

Edited November 19, 2007 by theGman

[Kellerbear]

Yes, I believe it was 6 small holes. I got the exact front to back location by measuring an Avanti at a car show. If you ever need this info, let me know and I'll check to see how far back from the front of the hood it is to the front of the emblem. Be careful when you drill the holes so the emblem isn't crooked.

The grille is easy to change; there are (I forget exactly) about 8 screws holding it on, easily removed by just laying down in front of the car. I too had the original grill with the 2 cutouts....I tried different ways to "patch" the holes, but they all looked bad, so I sprung for the $225 new one. It really makes a difference with the new "shiny" grille in there....was the biggest single improvement, believe it or not. (I didn't think it would make much difference)

When I installed the new one I went to the hardware store and bought some new stainless steel mounting screws and stuff. Also, you will have to drill a few new holes in the area where the cutouts are, because the original grille mounted right over the cutout. Most of the holes line up with the new grille though.

Removing etc. is no big deal, since the grilles are just screwed into holes in the fibreglass. I am a little on the big side at 6'2" with big hands, and even I had no problems doing this. While you have the old grille off it's a good time to poke around and see if everything in that area is in good shape.

If you don't want to change grilles you can add fog or driving lights to obscure the cutouts.

Paul

Thanks, Paul. Yes, can you give me the hood dimension for the hood ornament? Also, where did you buy the grille and hood ornament? I've seen them a couple of places. My car has fog lights already, but alas are placed outboard of the two gaping holes in the grille.

Sure appreciate you tips. I'm new to this Avanti world and not especially handy. This forum has such a helpful group of folks.

Tim

[theGman]

The front center of the chrome hood ornament (on the car I measured, and now mine) sits 2 11/16 back from the front edge of the hood. I bought mine from Nostalgic Motors.

There are other suppliers also who carry it. If you want a black insert for the hood ornament, you have to buy it seperately. You can get the Studebaker "S" in silver or gold letter on black background, or get the plain black one, which I did.

There are a few suppliers of Avanti parts:

www.avantiparts.net

www.myersstudebaker.com

www.studebaker-intl.com

www.studeparts.com

There are others, but these should get you moving. If you want the plain black (you can just use the chrome piece), I believe just one of the above had it.

Paul

Edited November 22, 2007 by theGman

[Kellerbear]

Kbear,

I have modified my '81 a bit. I added the hood ornament and the side emblems, took off the ugly cow catcher bumper and bought a new full front grille, to fill in the holes from the cow catcher. I tried to use other things to fill in the hole, but they all looked bad, so I sprung for the grille. Or is it "grill"?.

I bought a new set of original size Magnum 500s, 15 x 6, with stock size tires. I believe they are 205s.

I installed the Turner front brakes with no clearance issues.

I had to have my son touch up the red paint, since I sold an original luggage rack and he had to fill the holes and paint the lid anyway, so I removed the "II" emblems front and rear.

I wanted to ID the '81 as a "II" but never liked the factory deal, since the "II"s are a little different color and are upside down, cocked, etc. often, so what to do?

As you probably know, the hood emblem consists of the main chrome thing and a squarish plastic piece sold seperately. I bought a plain black plastic center piece, not the "S" ones which were on the originals. Then, I bought a new "II" and mounted it in the center of the otherwise solid black hood piece. Looks good to me; the car has a "II" on it, but just in that one place.

If you want to remove the "II"s ever, and, if you are a real nut, to do a "perfect" job on the trunk lid, you should move the "Avanti" chrome emblem over to the right, so you don't have the gap there where the "II" was. I didn't do that, but it would have looked just a little better.

I also changed the trunk backup lights into brake lights, and mounted 2 smallish Auto Zone rectangular driving lights alongside the license place vertically for new backups. Looks good and it is a lot brighter too!

Paul G.

Paul, where did you buy your new Magnum 500 wheels? I see there are some different sources for them.

Tim

[Gunslinger]

Tim...

You can get reproduction Magnum 500's from Coker Tire, Summit Racing, Jeg's and probably any speed shop that sells products from Wheel Vintiques who now makes them. In fact, I believe they even make them in larger than 15" diameters in one-piece aluminum...much lighter than all steel, but it would require a new set of tires.

[theGman]

Sorry for delay replying; I bought mine from a Mustang source in Oregon. They are the stock width. As mentioned, it's easier to get them now than when I bought mine just a few years ago.

Paul

[Kellerbear]

Tim...

You can get reproduction Magnum 500's from Coker Tire, Summit Racing, Jeg's and probably any speed shop that sells products from Wheel Vintiques who now makes them. In fact, I believe they even make them in larger than 15" diameters in one-piece aluminum...much lighter than all steel, but it would require a new set of tires.

[Kellerbear]

Tim...

You can get reproduction Magnum 500's from Coker Tire, Summit Racing, Jeg's and probably any speed shop that sells products from Wheel Vintiques who now makes them. In fact, I believe they even make them in larger than 15" diameters in one-piece aluminum...much lighter than all steel, but it would require a new set of tires.

[Jim78]

My '78 has new Magnum 500 wheels, but they are 7" wide. The P.O. of the car (who has a tire business) said that 6" rims are NLA in the Magnum wheel. The 7" rims fit OK, but I do get a rub on the left upper control arm when I make a hard right turn while backing up. Left turn is OK. The car has the quick steering arms, which would change the geometry at full turn. In any event, be aware that the fit with the 7" is marginal, and may take some tweaking of the front end adjustments.