Leo B
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Posts posted by Leo B
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Recommended for anyone interested in aerodynamics and how the flow goes in the front of the car.
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13 hours ago, Kodjo said:
I ment the solution you drew in the start post. I understand the function of the air dam. Both solutions increase airflow true the engine bay. But, if I had to choose one, it would be your suggestion and keeping the original design of the car. Combining the two would be the coolest solution 🙂
👍 That's exactly what I think myself. I don't want to change the appearance, but improve the air flow to the radiator. Another thing that interests me is the so-called belly pan/undertray to avoid vortex under engine and gearbox. Undertray creates a negative pressure under the engine and increases the flow from the radiator and the engine bay.
I need to buy this book: Modifying the Aerodynamics of Your Road Car written by Julian Edgar to understand more. -
20 hours ago, Kodjo said:
It looks a lot smarter than an air dam!
Did anybody try this?
If you ment this... The Air Dam is for a different purpose than the solution I drew and linked. The purpose of the Air Dam is to create a negative pressure under the car. My drawing and link presentation directs the flow better to the radiator.
If I have time, I will built this kind of solution. Before that lot to do.
BTW. Air Dam / Spoiler might also act as an air guide for the radiator if it's in the very front and directs air to the radiator as well. I personally don't like the way it looks in the Avanti. -
Caterpillar has 3EE. The CAT logo is removablable sticker. Very similar look when Studebaker used Willard in Avanti 1963. I have same and bought Willard sticker from SI. Every time I open the hood, the battery gets attention.😁
https://caterpillar.scene7.com/is/content/Caterpillar/C338971 -
Referring to the 1963/1964 Avanti Authenticity Manual photos, the gap between the hood and the cap is very small. The cap hits the insulation. It would appear to be about 1-1.5 inch from the hood. Use a low cap that you can find at your dealer (like Dwight FitzSimons have). I have not installed a tank. It has been restored and I want to save it for the future. I have the modern version for now.
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1 hour ago, Footer said:
What did you use for a shroud?
If you mean my drawing, I will do first measuring and testing. This will happens next spring. Im working now with desktop and interior.
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59 minutes ago, Ron Dame said:
LeoB and Silverstude, all I can say is that it works. and it's not much different than Dan Booth's solution, though I had not considered the bouncing and potential to break the hood, hence his use of the TP and shop rag.
As far as safety, as stated, there is a positive pressure above the hood that keeps it from rising more than a couple of inches, yet it apparently offers enough air to flow out of the engine compartment that it works. For me anyway. I accidentally discovered this when I for got to latch the hood and saw the hood raise a bit on teh highway, but not much. And the engine never got overly warm that hot day.
It is likely that the air is escaping from the side edges of the hood.
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When the water circulation and the radiator are in order, think about how the air intake for the cooler works at the moment. Due to the vortex, only part of the cooling air reaches the radiator. If you put a non-rotating electric fan in front of this, the surface area will decrease even more. What about the possible license plate in front? Before you install other solutions, this thing is important and you also need to understand how the air flows and what is underpressure and overpressure. The solution can be done reasonably easily. I drew the plan to Stude Avanti as an attachment.
Thanks to aerodynamic engineer Eric Ahlstrom and George Smith.
Read more https://nasaspeed.news/tech/engine/rocket-science-achieving-better-engine-cooling-with-proper-aerodynamic-principles/
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From the the battery to the side of the engine and the wire to the frame near the right mounting insulator/rubber of the engine.
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I agree with Silverstude.
When driving at high speed, there is an external over pressure (downforce) behind the hood that is greater than the pressure in the engine compartment. If a grille or gap is made there, the air will push into the engine room and create more pressure there, causing the air coming through the radiator to meet resistance. This outside air cools the back of the engine and the firewall more and travels downwards. With this method, it is also possible to get a temperature measurement error, because the sensor is in the back part, where this method cools more. The functionality of this theory can be tested by measuring the water temperature on the outlet side after the method and comparing it to the meter reading. I haven't tested it yet, but if this method were good, then air intake (vents) in the rear hood would be common in cars as well. All air should be brought in through the radiator only. The escaping air must be removed from a place where there is a negative pressure. Avanti's problem is that overpressure is created in the engine room, which prevents good flow through the radiator. This can be seen, for example, in the fact that even a small hole inside the firewall blows hot air in. The best way would be to make a grille/vents on the front of the hood where is external negative pressure (lift), but that doesn't fit a historic vehicle. This idea is used in many newer sports cars. Insulating the exhaust manifold is a very good idea and an attempt to get as much air as possible flowing through the radiator and as much out to bottom and to have there a good external negative pressure.
Mr Dan Booth wrote in article (Footer wrote a link): This worked fantastic, as the toilet paper forced the center of the hood up, and crated a very nice gap, so the hot air could leave the engine compartment as we were driving.
This is interesting because all theories state that there is external over pressure at the front bottom of the window, not negative pressure that sucked air from engine compartment. Air flows always from overpressure to negative pressure. I think he lowered the temperature as he turned on the heat and used the heater inside as an additional radiator.I'm not a professor and I'm happy to read other ideas and theories.
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52 minutes ago, mfg said:
Makes sense.
Fawn or light beige is a very difficult color to make and control the shade. A very small drop of black, red or yellow makes a big difference. Especially when you're trying to make small quantities. If you give the recipe to a different manufacturer, the end results might be different.
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I have gone through all the parts with the original paint and the areas that have not been affected by the sun. I'm convinced that the parts are painted in different places and that's why the shades are different. That is, there is no single color tone definition. Just some are darker or lighter and some are matte.
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It's hard to see the right color because time and light/sun have changed the shades. Some have more yellow and some more red. Correct might be radio bezel (less sun).
1. Should all gauge background plate, radio bezel, console plate be exact same matte fawn?
2. Should Steering Column and Glove Box Door (inside) be exact same shiny fawn? -
Pull the carpet back and access them from the interior.
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I think the main reason is the shape of the center console, which remains in a closed space with no airflow. This is facilitated by the front end being low and rear up / rake.
I will probably make a corresponding cooling kit myself.
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Console Cooling Kit, #1562554, as addressed in Service Letter F-1964-6, CONSOLE COOLING KIT - AVANTI MODELS WITHOUT AIR CONDITIONING, dated December 5, 1963.
Is there still a console cooling package available somewhere? I can probably do one using the Parts Catalog Page 206 picture. It would be easier if there was a ready-made solution.
Edit... Does anyone have this Service Letter? -
Air flow direction control valve in Air Distribution Duct.
The seal has come off in the valve and I'm going to make a new one.
When the valve is in the up position and closed, a small opening is left on the right side. When the valve is in the down position, there is also a gap.
What is the purpose of small gaps? Why the options are not closed completely?
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Thank you Nelson. You are absolutely right.
The reason is water getting inside through the lower air vent doors. There was just a little amount of trash in the draining of the water. Nevertheless, I enlarged the drain holes and cleaned trash with a vacuum cleaner. The reason for the water entering is water splashing on the lower part of the air opening in the footwell and draining from it inside. Especially if the air vents are open. Since the water falls freely from top to bottom, the water flows differently depending on the amount. In normal rainy weather, there comes not much water and it may only seep very little or none inside when the vents are open, but when you wash the windshield and hood with plenty of water, the water runs down abundantly and splashes on the lower shelf to the opening and then inside. This can also happen during very heavy rain.
Solution (my suggestions)
- Clean the vent doors and varnish them with e.g. boat varnish. Make or get new gaskets for them as well. You can also buy new plastic versions from vendors.
- During the car wash, cover the air intake (top ventilation grill). Wash the upper air intake grill with a smaller amount of water.
- If the car is parked outside for a long time or under trees, protect the air intake grill from trash and tree leaves etc.
- During rain and washing, close the air vent doors in the footwell. (Close L.H. and R.H. Vents).
- Make sure the drain holes in the bottom are open.
Pictures about this can be found in my dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/1s5hdibtng06quh9kmvcf/h?rlkey=ex0v3dnwe0ssybmjx7u00c3n0&dl=0
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6 hours ago, Skip Lackie said:
Did you use the HD adhesive, 3M number 8090? 3M makes two or three different similar products, but only the #8090 is designed to hold headliners and under hood pads. Also, the instructions must be followed exactly.
I apologize. I misreported. 3M 80 is good for rubber and the like. I used German glue, which is intended for porous materials. I don't know if this is available in the US. Product is: Four Connect Spray Adhesive.
3M 8090 seems to be correct choice. "Aerosol contact adhesive designed for bonding vinyl tops, heavyweight liners and hood silencer pads where high strength and heat resistance are needed." -
5 hours ago, Jim S said:
I tried 3M trim and adhesive and my insulator fell off as soon as the underhood temperatures rose. Then I tried Gorilla glue spray adhesive and again first hot day and after driving for an hour the insulator fell off again. I need something that will hold the insulator in place in these extreme temperatures.
I used 3M #80 Adhesive Spray and works for me with original style full size insulator (from SI)
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47 minutes ago, Rob Dudley said:
Windshield seal, wiper pivot seals would be where I would start.
Thanks for the good tip.👍
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Hi, Please advice on where the water leak comes from when washing the car and the wheel housings. The carpets in both front footwell areas are wet.
I don't use a pressure washer. Normal shower. Before I start researching in more detail, I would be happy if I could get some tips and experiences.
Better Engine Cooling. Aerodynamic principles.
in 1963-64 Avanti
Posted · Edited by Leo B
adding text
A negative pressure is also created in the wheel housing while driving and it "sucks" in air from the engine room and improves the flow through the radiator. I think that there is turbulence/vortex inside the wheel housing, so probably not quite optimal flow.