Suspension Feel

[crashferrari]

Hello... I'm buying an Avanti, and I'm trying to decide between the 60s, 70s and 80s model. One major concern for me is the suspension as I have a questionable back and prefer a softer ride. Do 70s avanti's ride easier than say the 60s, or the 80s, vice versa? in short: is there one that might work better than another for my grandma back? Thanks for the input! 

[Gunslinger]

First...welcome to Avantidom!  You're very welcome here.

I would say 1963-1985 Avantis all have a pretty firm ride.  They're all on the Studebaker chassis and for the most part, the same parts were used throughout the production run.  You also have to take into account that after all these years, most any '63-'85 Avanti has either had its suspension rebuilt at least once or severely needs it done.  The front coil springs have a tendency to compress over time which changes the ride.  So it's difficult to make a blanket statement for all as none probably ride as new anymore.  Even a rebuilt suspension, depending on the replacement springs, will ride different car to car.  

The post-'85 Avantis are built on a Chevy chassis...Monte Carlo, El Camino, Caprice depending on year and exact model.  Those are a far more modern suspension and probably give a more comfortable ride, but again...with age and wear it's hard to make a hard and fast rule on that.  

The Studebaker Avantis are probably the most crude, ride-wise, to misuse that term.  The early Avanti II's are really a repeat of the Studebaker version the different drivetrain notwithstanding.  As time went on the more luxurious they became as that was the market segment Avanti Motors was reaching for.  

It really comes down to condition, condition, condition.  If you buy one that needs a lot of work, the Avanti can be an expensive car to rebuild.  I would advise against buying a car with a power moonroof...they've proven troublesome in service.

Also...don't overlook a 2001-2006 Avanti.  They're few and far between (about 100 were built), but they're on the Pontiac TransAm platform and are a very modern car in most every aspect.

Again...welcome and feel free to visit often and ask questions or comment on anything.  We're a real community and want to help and spread the Avanti name.

[crashferrari]

hi gunslinger-- thank you so much for such a thorough, thoughtful answer. very helpful. there's a rebuilt 89 avanti not too far away i may make a pilgrimage to check out now as per your advice. it might be worth the better suspension for me. thanks again! 

 

 

[Gunslinger]

I was in error on the 2001-2006 Avantis...the 2001-2004 cars were built on the TransAm platform,...those following 2004 were on Ford Mustang platforms.  

[crashferrari]

Such great information. Thank you so much for the help and the warm welcome. Im assuming the mustang platform is a much stiffer ride as well. Actually i wanted to ask you if the avanti compared to the 60s 70s mustang coupe's. Apples to oranges but at least we are still in the fruit category. : ) 

[crashferrari]

Oh and one of the 80s avantis i like has the power moonroof. can't i just never open it and hope it never proves a problem? : ) 

[Gunslinger]

You can do that but if the seals go bad it can still leak.  If the moonroof operates properly it should be opened occasionally so you can put a rubber and vinyl dressing on the seals to keep soft and supple so they don't dry out.  Dried out and shrinking seals is what causes leaks.  

As far as comparisons to a '60s Mustang, I used to have both a '63 Avanti and a '67 Mustang.  The Avanti was nose heavy...the Mustang was light in the rear...not quite the same thing but the result is similar.  Between the two, the Avanti rode stiffer but had better brakes (discs vs drums).  The Avanti held the road better...the Mustang was really squirrelly on a wet road...the light rear end would slide and breakaway if you weren't careful.  

The Mustang was a simpler, easier car to work on.  Studebaker built the Avanti of better and more durable materials, but each has its own idiocincracies.  

[PackardV8]

 Since I often switch from a solid axle C-cab pickup to the Avanti, it seems to ride fine to me.

FWIW, tires, wheels and seats affect perceived ride quality equally as much as springs and shocks.

If one is not concerned with originality, switching to six-way adjustable power seats from a luxury car made a huge improvement in subjective ride comfort.  They were much softer, more supportive and allowed to get support under the thighs which long-legged drivers sometimes find lacking in the Stude OEM seats.  (Since there are so many different later Avanti II seats, I haven't sampled them all.)

Lighter weight forged aluminum wheels noticeably reduce unsprung weight and improve the ride comfort.  A friend who's a bit of a CASO cheaped out when he saw the cost of forged wheels and bought a set of cast wheels which were actually heavier than the OEM steel wheels.  The extra weight plus the additional width noticeably increased the unsprung weight and worsened the ride.

jack vines

[crashferrari]

Thanks so much for the continued feedback. I drove a 63 avanti this weekend and I have to say, it's a bit stiff of a ride. When I say Im looking for a grandma ride, I really want soft. It's annoying, but so is my back. However, I also completely love the car. I'd definitely like to find a way to make it work and am very close to pulling the trigger on one. Thanks Packard for the additional suggestions and mods. So you put in seats from a mercedes or another luxury car into yours? do you have pics or specific suggestions which seats to add? 

Also: good to know about the moonroofs-- sounds like a bit of a nightmare and one I'd like to avoid since I hate having my hair blown around anyways. 

Edited May 22, 2017 by crashferrari

[Gunslinger]

Any Avanti built on the Studebaler chassis is going to give you a stiff ride.  It's just the nature of the beast.  You can change seats as Jack already mentioned.  I changed the seats in my '70 Avanti from the original seats (that really sucked at confort and support) to Recaro seats from a later Avanti that was parted out.  While not power operated, they made a huge difference in support and comfort.  Even then, that has no bearing on the suspension and how stiff it is.  

As far as getting a softer ride from an Avanti, the best bet might be to find a post-1985 car built on the Chevrolet platform with a much more modern suspension.  The downside to those cars is they're a bit trickier when it comes to sourcing replacement parts for trim and the interior.  

[PackardV8]

40 minutes ago, Gunslinger said:

Quote

Any Avanti built on the Studebaler chassis is going to give you a stiff ride.  It's just the nature of the beast.

 Interestingly, I just drove a new near-$100,000 BMW and found it to ride significantly stiffer and have much less wheel travel than the Avanti.

Also interesting, as most of my Studebaker suspension efforts over the past 50+ years have been toward improving handling; however, it wouldn't be that difficult to go softer.  Using 6-cyl front springs, fiberglass rear springs, gas shocks, forged 16" or 17" wheels, tall profile tires, seats from one's favorite luxury car and all new front suspension wear parts.

But still, adding the parts cost, labor to have it all done, would be substantial.  Then the results are entirely subjective.  What would be wallowingly soft to one might be still too firm to our OP.

jack vines

 

 

[Avanti83]

I don't know how tall you are but if you are over about 5'10" headroom can be an issue as well as distance from the wheel. There is also the factor of installation of seats from other models. 

If you are interested in better seats, measure the height of the bottom cushion from the floor to the top of the cushion and prowl the local wrecking yards and car dealerships. Find a seat you like and see if the height and width look reasonable for your car. You can find about any seat you want by going to car-parts.com which is a nationwide parts locating service that most wrecking yards use and you can also. 

Luckily modern cars have become smaller and you will find most seats from this decade will fit, but measure to be sure. One hint, try to find them with the power switches on the seat not the dash or console. That way you only need to run 12v to the seats to make them function. Try to find 8-10 way adjustable seats to allow you the find the most comfortable driving position.

the good and bad news is you will need to fabricate mounts. The Avanti mounting is pretty straight forward but takes a bit of creativity. Custom mounts will also let you move the seat position back if necessary.

For my 74 I picked up a set of Pontiac G6/GTO leather seats and built the mounts.

Initial mount mockup

The mount has changed a fair bit from this pix but it will give you an idea.

There are after market seats that have mounts available for Avanti but I believe you will give up the power which I think is a major factor. Also choose a set with heat if your back bothers you. Again, pretty easy to hook up. I made sure I took the under seat harnesses with the seats, that way I had all of the correct connectors to power up. Wiring diagrams are usually available through Google.

Bob

Edited May 22, 2017 by Avanti83

[studegary]

I agree with most of what Gunslinger posted. 

I am most likely older than you.  I have owned near new Studebaker Avantis and bought a brand new 1987 Avanti.  The 1987 rode much more comfortably than the earlier models on the Studebaker chassis.. 

I have also worked on many Avantis from various years. 

From what you request/desire I would recommend a 1987-2007 Avanti.  There were 618 built for 1987 - 1991 and about 96 for 2001 - 2007. 

[crashferrari]

Thank you so much for all your thoughtful answers. I do really appreciate it as these cars are not exactly easy to find for a test run. Based on your suggestions I tried to buy a dialed in, white 84 avanti but it sold literally the day before-- ah well. I was staying away from 90s avantis because of the smaller engine. Funnily enough, I talked to an avid avanti collector and he said the 70s and 80s avantis don't drive much differently suspension-wise. I feel you guys are steering me in the right direction and the later models are easier on the body. The 60s studebakers are definitely out. 

As for fixing the seats, I'll talk to our local restoration place and see what they think it'll cost. At this point I think I'm going to just have to get the car I like and just add a little padding to it for longer drives. It may not be the prettiest solution but I'll sure it'll work.

And packard-- I agree the bmws have a horrible suspension feel, very stiff. My partner, however, has a new 750 bmw and it rides beautifully. It has what I call granny mode in addition to sport mode and it's great.  

[crashferrari]

Avanti83-- thanks again for showing me your seat modifications. So helpful! I'll keep it in mind definitely. 

 

Gunslinger-- and cool I will look at recaro seats/ people selling later Avantis for parts for switching out. Great suggestion. 

Edited May 30, 2017 by crashferrari

[studegary]

Suspension feel and seats are two different things.  My back can not tolerate 1963 Avanti seats for more than 100 miles (uncomfortable earlier than that).  My late 1964 Avanti seats were okay, if I kept a rolled up towel for support of my lower back.  I drove my 1987 Avanti for 500 miles at a time without any complaint from my back.  

I do not see how anyone can lump all 1980s together, as far as ride goes.  1980 - 1985 are still built on a Studebaker chassis/suspension.  1987 - 1991 Avantis are built on a Chevrolet Monte Carlo or Caprice chassis.

 

[crashferrari]

studegary-- thanks so much and good to know about the 63 vs the later models. the one i was in was a 63 so it was a bit stiffer. interesting take on the 80s models.

i do i understand I'm asking a slightly difficult question and one thats definitely up to interpretation (seats vs suspension and i do think they equally effect drive in their fashion.) either way, i appreciate the answers and am glad to get some basic feedback. like i said, driving them hasn't really been an option since they are so uncommon. 

 

 

[crashferrari]

Last question (not related to suspension): I'm ready to bid on an 84 avanti, do I have worry about the hog throughs' condition on those models ? Seems like something related to the earlier chassis or maybe I'm wrong. Thanks so much ! The owner got it from an estate sale and is not aware of avantis / hog through s at all. 

[Gunslinger]

Yes...a 1984 has hog troughs.  Avantis through 1985 used the original Studebaker frame and hog troughs.