MCACN Show!

[Nelson]

I have seen a partial list of engine/car numbers. It s a good start but also noticed the numbers don’t always match the car at least on the very few I’ve seen and feel confident in the ca’s history. I would definitely think the Bonneville numbers for engines would be within the first thirty or so built.  This car has engine B12 in it. It also has the oil sender bung welded into the oil pan which is a good indicator but not beyond adding later. There are other ways to tell but I keep them to myself.

[DWR46]

Nelson: Thank you for the prompt response. Please check your PM.

[Nelson]

2 hours ago, mfg said:

Nelson...did all the factory Studebakers which were run at Bonneville in '63 have standard transmissions?

Ed. They all had standard transmissions at Bonneville but the number 2 convertible was converted to a power shift to compete at the drags. It did run at the winter nationals at Pomona in January of 64. I have a few photos of it at that event. Under the hood for instance you can see two dipsticks. I own that car also and it still had the power shift. A friend of Andy Granatelli bought the car for his son on the son’s sixteenth birthday. He lived and still lives in the Chicago area and after talking with him he sent me a photo of the car when he had it. He traded it in a Corvair believe it or not.

[mfg]

It's interesting the #2 car was converted from four speed to Powershift Nelson.....If the conversion was done by the Granatellis, they must have been confident that a automatic equipped Daytona would be quicker down the strip than a four speed......

In my opinion, it would really depend on the quick shifting ability of the driver of the four speed car.

[Nelson]

1 hour ago, mfg said:

It's interesting the #2 car was converted from four speed to Powershift Nelson.....If the conversion was done by the Granatellis, they must have been confident that a automatic equipped Daytona would be quicker down the strip than a four speed......

In my opinion, it would really depend on the quick shifting ability of the driver of the four speed car.

I imagine it was the class it could best compete, not so much the speed or et. 

[mfg]

19 hours ago, Nelson said:

I imagine it was the class it could best compete, not so much the speed or et. 

I remember reading several years back that Krem/Palma were considering swapping a Powershift into the 'Wrapper' in place of the four speed (for less wear & tear on the car I would imagine)

[Nelson]

Actually the thought behind that swap was a potential faster 0-60 foot time. A stick shift car is difficult to launch  and maintain traction. An automatic is less instantaneous on power delivery. The Wrapper will typically run a 2.2 second 60 ft time, sometimes less sometimes more. Some of the cars at the psmcd are turning 60 ft times of 1.8 seconds. A .2 sec improvement in 60 ft time renderes about .4 seconds in the quarter mile et. The Wrapper would be in the low twelves if it would be consistent at say a 1.8 second 60 ft time. The automatic would consume some power and would probably cost several mpg at the finish line but the et could have improved.

[mfg]

1 hour ago, Nelson said:

Actually the thought behind that swap was a potential faster 0-60 foot time. A stick shift car is difficult to launch  and maintain traction. An automatic is less instantaneous on power delivery. The Wrapper will typically run a 2.2 second 60 ft time, sometimes less sometimes more. Some of the cars at the psmcd are turning 60 ft times of 1.8 seconds. A .2 sec improvement in 60 ft time renderes about .4 seconds in the quarter mile et. The Wrapper would be in the low twelves if it would be consistent at say a 1.8 second 60 ft time. The automatic would consume some power and would probably cost several mpg at the finish line but the et could have improved.

Interesting Nelson!..

I remember the Dodge/Plymouth S/S Tourqeflite equipped  cars were generally quicker than the four speed versions....although a couple drivers (at the time) could shift a good four speed car to times equal or even better than the automatics.

 

 

 

[mfg]

(EX...McCandless, Jenkins, Sox)

[mfg]

Hi Nelson...

I was wondering if the only 1963 'Bonneville' Studebakers to utilize dropped front spindles were the numbers 8 & 9 Avantis?

 

 

[Nelson]

I think all of them did with maybe the exception of the two six cylinder cars. I doubt if those had them as they weren’t an R3 or R4 package. I’m not sure about the R5 Avanti. I imagine it had the heavy duty control arms but wouldn’t bet on the dropped spindles.

[mfg]

10 hours ago, Nelson said:

I think all of them did with maybe the exception of the two six cylinder cars. I doubt if those had them as they weren’t an R3 or R4 package. I’m not sure about the R5 Avanti. I imagine it had the heavy duty control arms but wouldn’t bet on the dropped spindles.

Between the hood scoop and the rear skirts on the R5, that was one mean looking baby!!

[Nelson]

Yes, It was a mean looking machine. Dick Bennett called last night and I had a chance to ask about the front suspension on his car. It does not have the dropped spindles but does have the heavy duty control arms.  

[mfg]

24 minutes ago, Nelson said:

Yes, It was a mean looking machine. Dick Bennett called last night and I had a chance to ask about the front suspension on his car. It does not have the dropped spindles but does have the heavy duty control arms.  

Nelson, when you say heavy duty control arms, does that mean the R3 type, with grease fittings on the inner shaft?

(or did the Granatellis cook up something special?)

Edited January 9 by mfg
added text

[Nelson]

Yes, same as police car, taxi cab and 1951 Studebaker. 

[mfg]

1 minute ago, Nelson said:

Yes, same as police car, taxi cab and 1951 Studebaker. 

Got it!

[A0136]

Were the drop spindles a new part or a modified existing spindle?  

[Nelson]

I think they were. I’ve never researched it but should. I believe a r drop spindle was used on some 1955 models but that part number did not match up. The upper control arm was also submerged in the frame one inch when the new R3 R4 suspension was used.

[mfg]

12 hours ago, Nelson said:

I think they were. I’ve never researched it but should. I believe a r drop spindle was used on some 1955 models but that part number did not match up. The upper control arm was also submerged in the frame one inch when the new R3 R4 suspension was used.

That " submerging" of the upper control arm is something I noticed on 'Bonneville #9'.....I wonder what the Granatelli idea was behind making such a major modification?

.

 

[Nelson]

That modification was done at Studebaker engineering in SB. I asked Vince Granatelli, Andy’s son, if they did that suspension work (lowering the control arm) and his response was that Paxton did NO suspension modifications at all. All was done in SB.

The change was to improve cornering capability. It essentially allowed the tire to go into negative camber relative to the frame with less control arm deflection. This allowed the loaded tire to stay flat on the pavement in hard cornering. Carol Shelby did the same thing on the 65 and 66 Shelby Mustangs.

[mfg]

7 hours ago, Nelson said:

That modification was done at Studebaker engineering in SB. I asked Vince Granatelli, Andy’s son, if they did that suspension work (lowering the control arm) and his response was that Paxton did NO suspension modifications at all. All was done in SB.

The change was to improve cornering capability. It essentially allowed the tire to go into negative camber relative to the frame with less control arm deflection. This allowed the loaded tire to stay flat on the pavement in hard cornering. Carol Shelby did the same thing on the 65 and 66 Shelby Mustangs.

Hey, never heard this before....

VERY INTERESTING!

.

[A0136]

Any chance of seeing some pictures of the lowered upper control arm inner mount and the drop spindles. 
I have looked at the stock spindle and kingpin a few times with the thought of lowering the front end without changing the other suspension geometry.    Not many R3 Avanti’s to look at out here on west side of the country. 🤔

Edited January 12 by A0136

[Nelson]

The nine factory Avantis did not get the lowered control arms or the drop spindles. The intention was to install as part of the R3/4 package but I assume cost and time was not on Studebaker’s side. The Bonneville cars were equipped as the intended full option. I’ll have to do some hunting for photos.

[Nelson]

I couldn’t find any so rather than continue looking I just went into the garage and took two. Not the best shots as there are items in the way. The first is looking down at the upper control arm passenger side and the second is the drop spindle.

 

[A0136]

Thanks Nelson 

That does look different. I am headed to my shop now to take a look.  It’s 15 degrees and the shop is 2 blocks away but I won’t be able to go to sleep if I don’t go look.