Help with 1963 Avanti value please

[MC144]

I was asked by a friend to look at a '63 Avanti Supercharged car.  The owner passed away 6 years ago.  The car has sitting covered in a garage ever since.  The car will be sold but the spouse has no idea what to ask for the car.   I am a car guy but have little knowledge and no experience with Studebakers.  This car is supercharged and has a manual transmission.  I don't even know if it is a 3 or 4 speed yet.  The car is in nice shape.  It is white.  Interior is decent but needs a little attention.  Wear on the side of the drivers seat, for example.  I did not try to start the car as the gas should be drained and fuel system flushed, I would think.  I have attached a few pictures.  Can anyone give me an idea of the range of value of the car as it sits?  Thanks in advance for any help or information.

[lschuc]

Thanks for providing the pictures. It looks like a decent used Avanti, but not all original, ie; black paint under the hood (should be body color), aftermarket GM alternator and not detailed. The interior looks nice enough, but worn and wrong colors in some areas.    It looks like it has not been started in a long time so you did well by not trying to start the engine.  Most likely the brake will not work and need to be refurbished.  On the plus side, it is an R2 (supercharged) model from 1963 and would be a four speed transmission. It can take quite a bit of money to get it running, depending on what needs to be done, and a quality, first rate restoration would probably be more than the car's value.

What is the vehicle serial number.  It looks like an early production model, and that could make a difference.  The serial number would be on the title, and also on a metal tag that is riveted to the top of the frame rail on the passenger side, directly below the heater motor where It sticks out of the firewall. 

The Hagerty valuation guide lists an average price for this model at $30, 300, but their #4 condition is estimated currently at $16,000.  You can read the current values I've copied and decide for yourself.  But in this condition, I think $12,000 to $15,000 would be a fair price if you or the owner does not do any work to the car as it sits now in the garage.

And if the frame or torque boxed (steel boxes behind the rocker panels on both sides) are rusty, then you are looking at quite expensive repairs. The torque boxes alone can cost $1200 for the parts, and labor to install would be much more.  So if the chassis is rusted badly, prices would be much less than what I state above. 

Here is the link to the page too: https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools/1963-Studebaker-Avanti?id=10267

Hope this helps, 

Lew

 

Current Values

• #1 Concours$77,500
  Condition #1 vehicles are the best in the world. The visual image is of the best vehicle, in the right colors, driving onto the lawn at the finest concours. Perfectly clean, the vehicle has been groomed down to the tire treads. Painted and chromed surfaces are mirror-like. Dust and dirt are banned, and materials used are correct and superbly fitted. The one word description for #1 vehicles is "concours."
• #2 Excellent$49,500
  #2 vehicles could win a local or regional show. They can be former #1 vehicles that have been driven or have aged. Seasoned observers will have to look closely for flaws, but will be able to find some not seen by the general public. The paint, chrome, glass and finishes will all appear as excellent. No excessive smoke will be seen on startup, no unusual noises will emanate from the engine. The vehicle will drive as a new vehicle of its era would. The one word description for #2 vehicles is "excellent."
• #3 Good$30,300
  #3 vehicles could possess some, but not all of the issues of a #4 vehicle, but they will be balanced by other factors such as a fresh paint job or a new, correct interior where applicable. #3 vehicles drive and run well, but might have some incorrect parts. These vehicles are not used for daily transportation but are ready for a long tour without excuses, and the casual passerby will not find any visual flaws. "Good" is the one word description of a #3 vehicle.
• #4 Fair$16,000
  #4 vehicles are daily drivers, with flaws visible to the naked eye. The chrome might have pitting or scratches, the windshield might be chipped. Paintwork is imperfect, and perhaps the body has a minor dent. Split seams or a cracked dash, where applicable, might be present. No major parts are missing, but the wheels could differ from the originals, or other non- stock additions might be present. A #4 vehicle can also be a deteriorated restoration. "Fair" is the one word that describes a #4 vehicle.

Value Adjustments

+15% for factory 4-spd on R-1. +25% for factory 4-spd on R-2. -15% for 3-spd. -8% for Regal interior. +20% for factory a/c (N/A w/R-2).

 

[studegary]

It appears to be a nice car.  One big negative is that it has not been run/driven in years.  Who knows what the engine will need and the brakes and supercharger are expensive items to rebuild.  You do not say where it is.  To me, it appears to have New York State inspection and registration stickers  on the windshield.  The body is fiberglass, but if it "resided" in the Northeast it may have serious rust in the frame and torque boxes.  Especially with out knowing the rust situation, I wouldn't want to estimate a value.  I suggest selling it as-is rather than putting time and money into various systems of the car.  I suggest putting it on eBay with pictures, a good, honest description and a low starting price (like $1K).  The market will let you know what the car's value is today.   

[MC144]

Thanks for the responses.  They are very helpful.  The car is in NY.  I don't know the history of this particular car.  I will learn more about it.  I'll jack it up and get a look at the frame.   What are hog troughs?  Are these the torque boxes?   On a positive note, my friend told me the car was driven up to the point her husband passed.  On another positive note, the paint finish is still nice.  Thanks again.

[lschuc]

People often refer to the torque boxes as "hog troughs", but these are steel structures under the body, and directly behind each rocker panel, stretching from the front door pillar to just behind each rear wheel. They should be solid with no signs of rust through. 

[studegary]

There are MANY SDC and AOAI members in New York state.  If it is near to me, I will offer to look at it.  If not near to me, I may be able to recommend someone else that knows collector cars and Avanti in particular.  I have owned three Avantis and worked on many.  I am thinking that it is an Avanti that is or was in the Hyde Park/Poughkeepsie area.  

[MC144]

12 hours ago, studegary said:

There are MANY SDC and AOAI members in New York state.  If it is near to me, I will offer to look at it.  If not near to me, I may be able to recommend someone else that knows collector cars and Avanti in particular.  I have owned three Avantis and worked on many.  I am thinking that it is an Avanti that is or was in the Hyde Park/Poughkeepsie area.  

It is in the western NY area.  If you know a member in that area, I'd be happy to have a knowledgeable person look at it.  Thanks.

 

[MC144]

On 7/2/2020 at 10:09 AM, lschuc said:

People often refer to the torque boxes as "hog troughs", but these are steel structures under the body, and directly behind each rocker panel, stretching from the front door pillar to just behind each rear wheel. They should be solid with no signs of rust through. 

Ischuc,  thanks for the information.  Would it be worthwhile to clean the fuel system and have the car running and driving before selling?  I know it would be easier to sell but am wondering if it is worth the time and effort for the possible return.   Thanks in advance.

Mike

[Avanti83]

Be careful trying to start the car, there is a whole lot of expensive things that can go wrong including the supercharger. The car has a lot of value if the hog troughs are decent as it is a 4-speed R2. The cost of starting it may well outweigh any increase is price. I'd personally advertise what it is with a value in mind. If it's reasonable and nobody offers enough then it may be time to re-access if you want to add the cost of restarting it cautiously. 

[lschuc]

2 hours ago, MC144 said:

Ischuc,  thanks for the information.  Would it be worthwhile to clean the fuel system and have the car running and driving before selling?  I know it would be easier to sell but am wondering if it is worth the time and effort for the possible return.   Thanks in advance.

Mike

It would be helpful if the car was running and driving, but be prepared to put what could amount to quite a bit of money in the car.  Depending on how much fuel was in the gas tank when parked, much could be gone, or turned to sludge.   You could drain the tank and find out how much or how little fuel remains by removing the rubber hose under the tank above the center of the rear axle.   

As for the brake, be prepared to at minimum, replace all the brake caliper and wheel cylinder seals, and at most, replace everything, all the disk brake calipers and rear wheel cylinders, consider how long the car as been stored and how rusty the brake parts may be.  Brake hoses and all the brake lines should be inspected, and probably all replaced, especially if they are all original (lines) or old hoses.  The brake master cylinder is most likely rusted too and needs to be rebuilt or replaced, and the power brake booster could be bad too.

I'd also remove all the spark plugs, spray an oil fogger in each cylinder and try first to turn the engine over by hand, with the proper socket on the front pulley. If it moves slowly, then maybe bump the engine momentarily with a remote starter button to confirm. Then it may be safe to reinstall the spark plugs, prime the carburetor with a little fuel and see if the engine will run for a few seconds before you put more fuel in the tank. 

I don't know how much time and money the owner wants to put into the car, and if not much, it may be prudent to not do anything and sell the car for a lower amount, with the new owner figuring that they will have to put in more work to awaken the car.

 

[MC144]

Thanks for your help.  The VIN is 63R2462

[lschuc]

8 minutes ago, MC144 said:

Thanks for your help.  The VIN is 63R2462

Thanks!!   I noticed that the owner was a member of the AOAI in 2000 and for a few years later, but not recently.   On my TheAvanti.com registry, it was posted in 2003: 

R2 4 speed with T/T. Orig. color Gold now white. Final production date Jan.7th 1963. First sold in Reno as per order on Dec 17. Records indicate car spent its life in So.Cal until Nov.97. Many time show winner. All stock and original.  The car apparently was sold and went to the current owner in New York State at the end of 1997. 

So as Southern California car, I'm guessing that the frame and torque boxes are fairly clean and rust free.

 

[MC144]

3 hours ago, lschuc said:

Thanks!!   I noticed that the owner was a member of the AOAI in 2000 and for a few years later, but not recently.   On my TheAvanti.com registry, it was posted in 2003: 

R2 4 speed with T/T. Orig. color Gold now white. Final production date Jan.7th 1963. First sold in Reno as per order on Dec 17. Records indicate car spent its life in So.Cal until Nov.97. Many time show winner. All stock and original.  The car apparently was sold and went to the current owner in New York State at the end of 1997. 

So as Southern California car, I'm guessing that the frame and torque boxes are fairly clean and rust free.

 

Thank you Lew.  I hope you are right about the frame.   Too bad about the color change but at least the paint still looks good.

[MC144]

Lew, thanks for your insight.  The car is now running.  Motor, transmission and differential work properly.  Brakes, on the other hand, do not work at all.  I may do some more work as I am waiting for the owner's wife to get the DMV paperwork in order and in her name before I list the car.  So I have some time.  I didn't realize that I wouldn't be able to get a master cylinder from a local parts store.  Many people say to convert it to a newer style (safer) master cylinder.  Some say to keep it the stock type.  I will likely leave the brakes for the new owner to handle.