engine cooling '63 R1

[BillyBob]

Guess what - my engine runs hot. I can depend on a puddle every time I park the car - especially after a nice run. I'm thinking of re-coring radiator to 4 row. Comments?

...an 'aside': how do I update my profile picture? My now-sold '77 is in my profile - I can't figure how to delete it and "add" my '63.

Tnx, Bill

[Gunslinger]

You need to find out for sure where your cooling system is leaking. It needs to be pressurized to find the leak source...and have the radiator cap tested as well. If the cap has gone bad it won't hold pressure and allow coolant to go out the overflow. Once you have the source identified you can go about deciding what the best fix is. It could be as simple as too much coolant in the system and it's simply losing some from the overflow to find its natural level.

What conditions is the car running hot? All the time or only at highway speeds or just at idle? If just at highway speeds, the lower hose could be bad. Its internal spring could be rusted away and the hose is collapsing under vacuum.

If you decide to re-core the radiator, ask the radiator shop supervisor about a core with more fins per inch. Cores or ordered by dimensions and whether they're cross-flow or vertical-flow, not by application. Additional fins per inch increases swept area for cooling air and is actually more efficient than adding a row to the core.

As far as changing your photo avatar, you need to go into your personal settings and make the changes.

[BillyBob]

Cap and hoses are all functional. Leak is from overflow hose. Appreciate fin density comments. Assuming production, how many rows is current radiator?

[Gunslinger]

If the leak is from the overflow hose, then the radiator could be over full or the cap is not holding pressure and is allowing coolant to flow out...or it could be the wrong pressure cap to begin with. It should have a cap of about 14 psi...maybe it's a 7 psi cap. Even if it's the correct cap it may no longer be holding its designed pressure. You can also add an overflow recovery kit which keeps you from losing coolant and allows it to return.

If the hoses and cap are in good shape, there could be a restriction somewhere in the system...in the radiator itself, in the block, a malfunctioning thermostat. You might think about having the entire system power flushed and see if that changes anything. If you decide to change the thermostat, pay a few dollars more and get one of the "fail-safe" types...designed in a way that if they fail, they fail in the open position, not closed.

Another thing to try which is a help...install an air deflector under the front end...it's from a Saturn and is easy to install and it makes a real difference at highway speeds. I have one on my car and it reduced highway temps about 10-15 degrees...big difference on a hot day. The GM part number is 21031161...it should cost less than $30 and attaches easily to the radiator support under the front. Easy install and worth every penny.

[ken1007]

According to the radiator shop that has recored about 7 radiators for me over the past several years, the density of the fins is more important than the number of cores. The theory is that one does not want to allow the coolant to move too quickly and it's the fins that maximise cooling. more fins means more money and recore is approaching $500 with more dense fins. I have a 289 in 63 that still runs hot and is a candidate for electric fans, this was done on one other car and it can be driven in parade with no problem. Ken, Deltaville, Va

ADDED: HAS ANYONE USED ANY OF THE ADDATIVES THAT ARE DESIGNED TO REDUCE TEMPERATURE????

Edited June 21, 2011 by ken1007

[Gunslinger]

HAS ANYONE USED ANY OF THE ADDATIVES THAT ARE DESIGNED TO REDUCE TEMPERATURE????

I've tried them and noticed no difference. I will say that I didn't use them per directions...I simply added them to the coolant. They're supposed to work best added to straight water rather than a glycol/water mix. If I had done that maybe I would see an improvement.

There is another product I haven't seen fit to try but is heavily promoted in the Corvette world...it's called Racing Competition Oil Additive by Pro-Blend, the makers of 40 Below coolant additive. They claim it lowers engine oil temperature "up to 52 degrees" which in turn helps lower cooling system temperature. Whether it actually works or is simply more hype is an open question. If it actually does work, it may see its effectiveness at high rpm's like during racing. Since it marketed for racing and not for normal driving it may show absolutely no difference in street use.

I think I'll let others use their cars for the guinea pigs when I see claims like that.

[Paul K.]

I've tried them and noticed no difference. I will say that I didn't use them per directions...I simply added them to the coolant. They're supposed to work best added to straight water rather than a glycol/water mix. If I had done that maybe I would see an improvement.

Makes sense, straight water has better heat transfer abilities than glycol.

BTW, since you have a Stude engine, don't overlook possible blocked water jackets/passages in the block as your cause for a hot running engine. These engines are notorious for that. Even when the engine seems to flush clean, there can be solid packed debris in the water jackets usually the rear cylinders. Remove a rear freeze plug to check. If you see junk in the jacket, get ready for a messy job. Don't forget your shower cap!

[Project Avanti]

Cap and hoses are all functional. Leak is from overflow hose. Appreciate fin density comments. Assuming production, how many rows is current radiator?

You don't mention whether or not you have a coolant recovery tank or whether your car is actually overheating or just losing coolant.

It might be worth checking with a known good gauge or IR thermal imager

[Tiger Tom]

I have similar problems with my R2. The symptoms are that it would not really over heat. Oh, it would go to 200 or so which is normal during 90+ degree days. That's OK. But what I found was that water was being expelled and then eventually the car would over heat. BTW, the auto industry definition standard for "Over Heating" is when the engine will not preform as designed. It's not a temperature #. But trust me, when it gets to 240, the engine doesn't run cause the carb gas boils like water. Anyway, using a IR temp probe I located a hot spot in the rear of the head as noted by others. This hot spot locally boils the water, although the temp gauge still states 180 or 200. Boiling water expands, builds pressure and force some water out of the cooling system. Eventually the engine does overheat. I have not fixed it yet. Too lazy and now that I know what it is I can drive through the summer and deal with it this winter.

As for water wetters or cooing additives to help car run cooler. Forget it. They only produce benefits under extreme operating conditions like racing with engine at max load. There is virtually no measurable effect at idle or highway speeds. How do I know? a friend and I got tired of all the modern day snake oil salesman and their cooling tricks from fans, radiators, additives, water pumps, etc. that we did our own scientific study. I ran a development test engineering laboratory so had all the requisite test equipment. Although the test was done on a brand X car, the results hold true for idle and highway driving on most vehicles. We wrote a fun article of our exploit's on this site. http://teae.org/cooling-the-tiger/

TT

[Project Avanti]

I have similar problems with my R2. The symptoms are that it would not really over heat. Oh, it would go to 200 or so which is normal during 90+ degree days. That's OK. But what I found was that water was being expelled and then eventually the car would over heat. BTW, the auto industry definition standard for "Over Heating" is when the engine will not preform as designed. It's not a temperature #. But trust me, when it gets to 240, the engine doesn't run cause the carb gas boils like water. Anyway, using a IR temp probe I located a hot spot in the rear of the head as noted by others. This hot spot locally boils the water, although the temp gauge still states 180 or 200. Boiling water expands, builds pressure and force some water out of the cooling system. Eventually the engine does overheat. I have not fixed it yet. Too lazy and now that I know what it is I can drive through the summer and deal with it this winter.

As for water wetters or cooing additives to help car run cooler. Forget it. They only produce benefits under extreme operating conditions like racing with engine at max load. There is virtually no measurable effect at idle or highway speeds. How do I know? a friend and I got tired of all the modern day snake oil salesman and their cooling tricks from fans, radiators, additives, water pumps, etc. that we did our own scientific study. I ran a development test engineering laboratory so had all the requisite test equipment. Although the test was done on a brand X car, the results hold true for idle and highway driving on most vehicles. We wrote a fun article of our exploit's on this site. http://teae.org/cooling-th

TT

Thank You for the research and excellent article

[BillyBob]

An update and dare I mention, embarrassing? A new radiator cap and the car's cooling performance is "just fine". Thanks to all...watch for my "hill holder" post.