63R-1016 Question!

[mfg]

In a period road test photo of Avanti 63R-1016, it appears that the fan shroud is missing…. If it was, I wondered if it was destroyed when the twin supercharger belts blew off the R3 engine during the HRM performance evaluation of the car?

A Studebaker Avanti being driven in a warm climate (California) would almost certainly overheat without a fan shroud…. Interesting!

[Nelson]

I always thought the car probably had frequent engine changes so they just never reinstalled a fan shroud. However, the broken idler during the road test could be the reason. I remember Andy saying the car always overheated which it most certainly would with no fan shroud. You would think Andy would have realized that? That was back in the day when Avantis had shrouds with the bottom section in it. Later everyone started  cutting the bottom of the shroud away which made changing water pumps a much easier job.

[mfg]

17 hours ago, Nelson said:

I always thought the car probably had frequent engine changes so they just never reinstalled a fan shroud. However, the broken idler during the road test could be the reason. I remember Andy saying the car always overheated which it most certainly would with no fan shroud. You would think Andy would have realized that? That was back in the day when Avantis had shrouds with the bottom section in it. Later everyone started  cutting the bottom of the shroud away which made changing water pumps a much easier job.

Yes… that water pump thing… it did seem extremely common for water pumps to fail on Studebaker Avantis…. Some owners felt that, on R2 models, and R1 with A/C versions, too much pressure was applied to the water pump bearings from the supercharger and or A/C system system.

Personally, I think the frequent water pump failures happened because of Avanti owners replacing the original water pump with a standard duty non-flanged type, which really wasn’t designed to be strong enough to take the extra pressure.

[mfg]

Years ago a friend of mine whom owned a Stude Avanti ‘transition model’ with the R2 supercharged engine, paid someone to change the water pump…. The mechanic, not knowing any better, purchased & installed a  standard duty, non-flanged water pump on that Avanti… The pump indeed failed about six months later.

Edited February 22 by mfg
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[Nelson]

A note on correct Avanti water pumps and how they differ from standard pumps. The tower on the Avanti pump is taller than a standard V8 pump, the bearing used in both pumps is the same. The position of the Avanti bearing is closer to the front of the car which is allowable due to the taller tower. The fan pulley mounting flange is pressed on the shaft almost to the top of the casting tower on the Avanti style and not nearly as far as with the standard V8. The distance from the fan flange mounting surface to the gasket surface is the same on both pumps. The water pump bearing have a front set of ball bearings and a rear set. The Avanti setup, with correct pump, all the belt load is distributed evenly between the front and rear bearing set. When using a standard V8 pump all the load is taken by the front set of bearing. The result is rapid bearing failure at the front of the pump.

[mfg]

11 hours ago, Nelson said:

A note on correct Avanti water pumps and how they differ from standard pumps. The tower on the Avanti pump is taller than a standard V8 pump, the bearing used in both pumps is the same. The position of the Avanti bearing is closer to the front of the car which is allowable due to the taller tower. The fan pulley mounting flange is pressed on the shaft almost to the top of the casting tower on the Avanti style and not nearly as far as with the standard V8. The distance from the fan flange mounting surface to the gasket surface is the same on both pumps. The water pump bearing have a front set of ball bearings and a rear set. The Avanti setup, with correct pump, all the belt load is distributed evenly between the front and rear bearing set. When using a standard V8 pump all the load is taken by the front set of bearing. The result is rapid bearing failure at the front of the pump.

Above is a good description of the inner workings & differences between standard and Avanti specific Stude V8 water pumps.

I’d mention that the fact an Avanti R1-R2 water pump pulley is made of cast iron always bothered me…TOO MUCH WEIGHT!!

Years ago I installed an aftermarket aluminum pulley I obtained from Dave Thibeault…. I don’t really know if the water pump on my R2 ‘cares’ either way, but I sure feel better about it!!!

Studebaker engineers may have been thinking about this, as I believe they made  the factory water pump pulley for an Avanti R1 (with A/C) out of aluminum.

[64studeavanti]

The R1 pulleys are the same as R2. The aluminum water pump pulley, 1563110 became available with an improved idle cooling kit announced in service letter R-1964-4, dated April 24, 1964.

[mfg]

1 hour ago, 64studeavanti said:

The R1 pulleys are the same as R2. The aluminum water pump pulley, 1563110 became available with an improved idle cooling kit announced in service letter R-1964-4, dated April 24, 

I see…. I thought the aluminum water pump pulley was part of the A/C setup from the get go… Now I understand that it was introduced later on…Thanks!

Edited Sunday at 09:16 PM by mfg
Changed text

[64studeavanti]

I have 2 63s and 2 64s with A/C. They all have the same heavy cast iron pulleys as R2.

Strange thing, the aluminum pulley, 1563110, is listed in the December 63 parts catalog.

I have R5408 and R5423. R5408 was completed December 2nd.

[mfg]

1 hour ago, 64studeavanti said:

I have 2 63s and 2 64s with A/C. They all have the same heavy cast iron pulleys as R2.

Strange thing, the aluminum pulley, 1563110, is listed in the December 63 parts catalog.

I have R5408 and R5423. R5408 was completed December 2nd.

 

[mfg]

Interesting Stude decided to make that 1563110 pulley out of aluminum… I imagine the excessive weight of that original cast iron pulley had something to do with it… That custom pulley I got from Thibeault weighs about 1/3 the weight of the iron part.