Trivia!...Avantis At Bonneville

[mfg]

Trivia....Among other Studebaker models, the Granatellis brought four Avantis to Bonnevile in late 1963 for their very successful record setting effort....True?

[Guest dapy]

I only remember two from the pictures. How many actually broke the speed record? It was the STP that made the difference.

THE RACER'S EDGE! Great line. Wish it were mine. Benton & Bowles was his ad agency...right?

[garyc]

Can you share more info on the late 1963 speed records. I am only familiar with the 29 speed records set in April of 1962 by the R3 Avanti. I have always been curiuos as to why the R3 never entered production in 1962 and only 9 then in late 1963. Records show the '62 R3 did 170.78 and the Due Centro R5 made it to a top speed of 196.62. Just a thought, the Avanti has never been recognized as a muscle car. WHY?

[Gunslinger]

R3/R4 development was handled by Paxton and while Studebaker had high hopes for it, they had plenty of problems just producing any Avantis, and by the time they had two sources of bodies online (MFG and Studebaker), and production was about to proceed in a more orderly fashion, sales dropped and orders cancelled. Production was stopped altogether during the summer of '63 to tool up for production changes and to allow the surplus of unsold vehicles (not just Avantis) to come down.

By the time the R3 was added to the list of available options, the handwriting was on the wall and the Board of Directors wanted to get out of auto production altogether and Sherwood Egbert was ill and the driving force behind the Avanti was pretty much gone.

As far as "muscle cars" goes, the Avanti really doesn't qualify. The classic definition of a muscle car is a 2-door intermediate size car, equipped with a large displacement engine. The muscle car era lasted from 1964-1971 though that's arguable. Most cars called muscle cars really aren't as the term has been corrupted. The Avanti more properly fits within the Grand Tourer category or the personal luxury class, though the GT Hawk fits that better.

The Avanti had the long hood, short rear deck two years before the Barracuda and Mustang, but it's the Mustang that gave the term Pony Car to us.

I just like to think the Avanti is in a class by itself.

[mfg]

I only remember two from the pictures. How many actually broke the speed record? It was the STP that made the difference.

THE RACER'S EDGE! Great line. Wish it were mine. Benton & Bowles was his ad agency...right?

Well, I believe the Granatellis oficially brought three Avantis to Bonneville...#9, the gold '64 R3 that actually set most of the records, #8, the red backup car to #9 that developed heating problems and didn't set any of the official records, and the red 'Due Cento' R5 Avanti that they hoped would break 200mph ....and almost did! The 'RACERS EDGE' really was a catchy line...not sure of the ad agency.

Can you share more info on the late 1963 speed records. I am only familiar with the 29 speed records set in April of 1962 by the R3 Avanti. I have always been curiuos as to why the R3 never entered production in 1962 and only 9 then in late 1963. Records show the '62 R3 did 170.78 and the Due Centro R5 made it to a top speed of 196.62. Just a thought, the Avanti has never been recognized as a muscle car. WHY?

I'll work on that. You may or may not know that the April '62 record setting R3 Avanti was later converted by the Granatelli's into the R5 'Due Cento'.

[garyc]

Thanks for the added info. In doing a little more research I found a Studebaker sales letter dated 6-10-63 stating the Avanti R3 ultra-high performance engine would be available on or about August 1, 1963 at a delivered price of $1031.00 over the standard R1. The last comment in the letter states includes "This engine... is a replica of the equipment that produced speeds in excess of 168 mph at Bonneville and is covered in Sales Letter 103, dated Sept. 27, 1962, is not regarded as ideally suited for city driving under heavy traffic conditions. We offer no gwarrenty on this engine because of the highly specialized conditions of its use." I was unable to find the 103 Sales letter. It may be an interesting read regarding performance as well. Also I ment to say August of '62 not April in my first post. April was when the Avanti was first introduced at the NY auto show.

[mfg]

garyc...Thank YOU for that interesting clarification. As an aside....it must have taken a special person to spend that extra $1031.00 over the base R1 .....and not even get a guarantee on the drive train!!

[Gunslinger]

I'll work on that. You may or may not know that the April '62 record setting R3 Avanti was later converted by the Granatelli's into the R5 'Due Cento'.

Nope...the "Due Cento" was built from the first Avanti prototype and was converted back to stock Avanti configuration and is owned by a member in PA. The #9 car that took the 1962 records was built from regular production and is in a west coast museum and within the last year or two was on temporary loan to the SNM.

[mfg]

I think we may have a bit of confusion here... I feel that the #9 (gold) Avanti R3 that set records as part of the fall, 1963 large Granatelli/Studebaker team effort, and is now on the West Coast, was built from a regular production Avanti.

The lone Avanti that the Granatellis brought to Bonneville in (August) 1962 was indeed a prototype Avanti that had an early (299 inch) R3 installed in it. THAT is the car that was converted into the 'Due Cento' (R5) and brought back to Bonneville in the fall of '63 to try and break 200MPH. (This Avanti was painted red on both its Bonneville trips, and wasn't assigned a number either time)

[r5duecento]

I think we may have a bit of confusion here... I feel that the #9 (gold) Avanti R3 that set records as part of the fall, 1963 large Granatelli/Studebaker team effort, and is now on the West Coast, was built from a regular production Avanti.

The lone Avanti that the Granatellis brought to Bonneville in (August) 1962 was indeed a prototype Avanti that had an early (299 inch) R3 installed in it. THAT is the car that was converted into the 'Due Cento' (R5) and brought back to Bonneville in the fall of '63 to try and break 200MPH. (This Avanti was painted red on both its Bonneville trips, and wasn't assigned a number either time)

mfg,

You are basically correct in your statement. All three Avantis were at the 1962 run, but the prototype EX2942 set all 29 records. The gold car was the backup which became the #9 car in the 1963 runs, as you stated, and it set all of the records that year. The red car in 1962 became the #8 car in 1963 and was the backup car for #9, but was not needed as #9 ran with no problems. As you stated, the prototype was converted to the Due Cento for 1963.

[mfg]

mfg,

You are basically correct in your statement. All three Avantis were at the 1962 run, but the prototype EX2942 set all 29 records. The gold car was the backup which became the #9 car in the 1963 runs, as you stated, and it set all of the records that year. The red car in 1962 became the #8 car in 1963 and was the backup car for #9, but was not needed as #9 ran with no problems. As you stated, the prototype was converted to the Due Cento for 1963.

Thanks very much for these confirmations.

[studegary]

Thanks for the added info. In doing a little more research I found a Studebaker sales letter dated 6-10-63 stating the Avanti R3 ultra-high performance engine would be available on or about August 1, 1963 at a delivered price of $1031.00 over the standard R1. The last comment in the letter states includes "This engine... is a replica of the equipment that produced speeds in excess of 168 mph at Bonneville and is covered in Sales Letter 103, dated Sept. 27, 1962, is not regarded as ideally suited for city driving under heavy traffic conditions. We offer no gwarrenty on this engine because of the highly specialized conditions of its use." I was unable to find the 103 Sales letter. It may be an interesting read regarding performance as well. Also I ment to say August of '62 not April in my first post. April was when the Avanti was first introduced at the NY auto show.

The 6/10/63 Sales Letter that you reference is No. 161 and references the R3 as 304.5 cid.

Sales Letter 103 is dated 9/27/62 and is three pages long. The relevant parts are; "As first announced on April 25, 1962, the racing version of the Avanti engine, designated Model R-3, is available as an extra cost option. This is the special 299 cubic inch supercharged engine built in conformity wth A.M.A. specifications dated July 24, 1962....In view of the current backlog of unfilled Avanti orders, no firm delivery date can be promised at this time. Pricing information will be furnished later." There is no mention of performance in this Sales Letter.

I believe that the R3 did not really become available until the 6/10/63 Sales Letter and then as a 304.5 cid engine.