Avanti Racing clarification request

[Palantirion]

To whom it may concern,

I am a painter and Avnati owner. I am currently working on an Avanti-centered project (for myself, not intended for sale, but pics will be posted here when completed). Part of this project will be a tribute to Avanti's racing history.

I have done as much research as I can through the internet and while I have a lot of visual data I am not sure how the pieces fit together. Of particular confusion is clarification of which Avantis were actually campaigned by Studebaker and which were later privateer entries. Or in the case of some running on the salt as late as the 2000s, are they relevant to the Avanti's historical narrative?

These privateer cars would include the turquoise Duo Cento #9431, Dave Bloomberg's gold #1963, the #686, the "bucket list car" which seems to have changed liveries a few times, and a turquoise #60 campaigned in road racing for many years.
Links to the privateer cars...
Duo Cento #9431
Named in honor of Granatelli's R5. http://www.theavanti.net/jim_lange.html
#1963
Clearly numbered in reference to the official Studebaker record car. Bloomberg owned this Avanti. I assume it was first campaigned long after the demise of Studebaker, but I could be wrong. www.theavanti.net/bloomberg.html
Bucket List
I am not sure if this car is in fact the old Bill Burke car. But if it is it has been substantially altered over the decades. The tri-color stripe livery is implied to be a reference to a vintage livery, but I have no details to confirm this. http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2011/05/bucket-list-dream-studebaker-avanti.html
#60
This one was set up for road racing, and later was lost in a garage fire. It brings to mind the question, were there any vintage Avantis (factory-backed or privateer) used in road racing or hill climbs? http://www.studebaker-info.org/AVDB1/R3000/63R3801/63R3801.html
#646
A gold Avanti II at Bonneville. No info on the page. http://billstudepage.homestead.com/files/saltracers.htm

Known factory-backed Avantis
1) #9 Paula Murphy car.
2) #1963 driven by Ron Hall.
3) Granatelli's twin-supercharged red car, with no side numbers.
4) I have a b/w photo of a Champion Spark Plug add with a #8 car that set a one-way record of 197mph. Don't know the driver or color (dark in photo, maybe Avanti Red).
5) There is a diecast model of a #786 red (not a proper Avanti Red or Maroon). I can't find any documentation on this car at all apart from the model, but models are never made of meaningless cars. Could it have been one of Granatelli's?
6) According to a (presumably) Studebaker video there was a plain Avanti Red car that was used by Granatelli at Bonneville to set the stock records.
7) #90, gold (or yellow), 1963 of Bill Burke. Not sure if that was officially sanctioned by Studebaker, but appears to have been raced in 1963 and then in subsequent years with different owners and liveries.
8) I have a b/w photo of an unnumbered Avanti, sponsored by "Sears-Studebaker" at Bonneville. Some of the lettering implies it was used in long distance rallies or record runs across the US.

I am also curious how many Avantis were used as pace cars, and if their liveries differed from one venue to another. I have a pic of one with double black hood stripes on a white Avanti. Another (from Nassau) is white stripes on black. I have another pic of a plain white Avanti on a banked track.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Palantirion

[plwindish]

Ron Hall's #1963 Avanti,(you might be confusing Bloomberg with Hall owning the car), residing in the Studebaker Museum since his early death. Ron's car was the first to break 200 mph at Bonneville in September 1993. It certainly wasn't factory backed as Studebaker was long out of business at that time, but sponsored by Black Hawk SDC and Chicagoland AOAI as well as other clubs and many volunteer hours put in by SDC and AOAI members helping work on the car getting it ready and also being out in Bonneville for the runs. I believe Ron's earliest runs with the car was in 1988. Ron and the car were the topic of a great night at the Studebaker Museum a year ago. That meeting was made into a Dvd that John Hull may still have available for purchase. Hull had also compiled the program for that night that listed all of the past racing records of the Avanti's. A copy of the program also came with the dvd, which would have great information for your project.

Edited April 11, 2014 by plwindish

[mfg]

You're taking on an interesting project. The Avanti I would like to see replicated is the twin-supercharged 'Due Cento' from 1963. You are a painter, and probably also do bodywork. If all the unique exterior features that were on the original car were duplicated (hood scoop, belly pan, fender skirts, etc.) it would really be something to see. All the original signage including 'STUDEBAKER' on the rear fenders would also need to be duplicated. (And 'spun aluminum' wheel discs would also be a must!)

[Palantirion]

Ron Hall's #1963 Avanti,(you might be confusing Bloomberg with Hall owning the car), residing in the Studebaker Museum since his early death. Ron's car was the first to break 200 mph at Bonneville in September 1993. It certainly wasn't factory backed as Studebaker was long out of business at that time, but sponsored by Black Hawk SDC and Chicagoland AOAI as well as other clubs and many volunteer hours put in by SDC and AOAI members helping work on the car getting it ready and also being out in Bonneville for the runs. I believe Ron's earliest runs with the car was in 1988. Ron and the car were the topic of a great night at the Studebaker Museum a year ago. That meeting was made into a Dvd that John Hull may still have available for purchase. Hull had also compiled the program for that night that listed all of the past racing records of the Avanti's. A copy of the program also came with the dvd, which would have great information for your project.

-There are two Avantis using #1963, Ron Hall's in the museum, and the gold one (I believe Bloomberg's, used in modern times).

According to this article (http://www.studebaker-info.org/Bonneville/Hall/bonville.html) Hall's was definitely used much later than Studebaker existed. But this brings the question: Why is it in the museum? Are other privateer cars listed here also destined for the museum?

As far as the Brook Bros car, I found this blog:

http://www.myrideisme.com/Blog/burke-bros-bonneville-bucket-list-studebaker-avanti/

Seems like the original car #90, looked like this:

Then was rebuilt and repainted to this around 2010:

And then finally (2011 to currently?) to this:

http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2011/05/bucket-list-dream-studebaker-avanti.html

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=656240

Then is there is Due Cento, by Jim Lange :http://www.theavanti.net/jim_lange.html

named after Grannetilli's Stude-backed car:

Now, curiously, Grannetelli ALSO pilots this red Avanti for Studebaker: (see vid)

Was this the same car, prior to the mods, to set the stock car records?

And what about this pic, showing the hood scoop but not the rear wheel covers?

Another configuration of the modified car? Or an evolution of the one in the above vid? Or both?

Paula Muphy's car, obviously Stude-backed:

Pics at Bonneville in 2010 of (left to right) Dan Wethren's Avanti II #646, Jim Davis' Avanti II (white), Jim Lange's Duo Cento, and Bloomberg's #1963:

http://www.theavanti.net/due_cento_r5.html

Moving away from Bonneville there is Bill Brandt's '63 Avanti #60. I found this pic from the 2002 Siver State Classic:

And (although it isn't relevant to my project because it isn't a Studebaker Avanti) there was this '84 Avanti used in SCCA racing:

http://www.studebaker-info.org/Avanti/AVGT/avgt.html

You're taking on an interesting project. The Avanti I would like to see replicated is the twin-supercharged 'Due Cento' from 1963. You are a painter, and probably also do bodywork. If all the unique exterior features that were on the original car were duplicated (hood scoop, belly pan, fender skirts, etc.) it would really be something to see. All the original signage including 'STUDEBAKER' on the rear fenders would also need to be duplicated. (And 'spun aluminum' wheel discs would also be a must!)

-I think you underestimate my current automotive skills. With regards to my dad's '64 this is the first time I've ever tried to restore a car. Thankfully the bodywork component of that project is minimal. I agree that a replica of the original Due Cento would be really cool!

[Palantirion]

p.s. I still can't find any info on a red Avanti #786 that I saw a model of online. Now I can't find a link to the pics any more. But I figure someone isn't going to make a model of a meaningless car, so perhaps this Avanti is important too. Does anyone know anything about it?

Looks like an R2 with dual side exhaust exiting behind the front wheels, roll cage, black chute, Moon wheel covers, raised fairings on the roof, and STP round headlight covers.

[mfg]

On the series of photos of the 'red' Granatelli 'Due Cento', (including the video), these are all photos of the same Avanti. The video shows the car with the 299 CI 'early' R3 engine at Bonneville in late '62. The next year the Granatelli's came back with this same car as the 'Due Cento', with the big 'R5' engine installed, and all the body mods. This particular Avanti was (is) one of the pre-production experimental (EX) Studebaker Avantis.

[Palantirion]

On the series of photos of the 'red' Granatelli 'Due Cento', (including the video), these are all photos of the same Avanti. The video shows the car with the 299 CI 'early' R3 engine at Bonneville in late '62. The next year the Granatelli's came back with this same car as the 'Due Cento', with the big 'R5' engine installed, and all the body mods. This particular Avanti was (is) one of the pre-production experimental (EX) Studebaker Avantis.

-Thank you for the clarification.

Now how about this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-AVANTI-ORIGINAL-VINTAGE-AD-CHAMPION-SPARK-PLUGS-/371037206771

http://www.studebaker-info.org/AVDB1/R1000/63R1014/63R1014x2009.html

Is this also the same red EX Avanti, used for records in a different class/time?

[mfg]

These photos that you're posting are GREAT!! The #8 Avanti is not the same car as the 'Due Cento'. The #8 Avanti was the 'backup' car for the gold #9 Avanti that set all the records in 1963. #8 was part of the Granatelli-Studebaker Bonneville effort of 1963 where Studebaker set over 330 speed records. As far as I know, #8 wasn't credited with any records. The Studebaker Avantis that were present were the red #8, the gold #9, and the 'Due Cento'. The gold Sears-Allstate 'cross country' Avanti (Paula Murphy) also made an appearance I think. And several different Studebaker Larks and Hawks were also there.

[Palantirion]

These photos that you're posting are GREAT!! The #8 Avanti is not the same car as the 'Due Cento'. The #8 Avanti was the 'backup' car for the gold #9 Avanti that set all the records in 1963. #8 was part of the Granatelli-Studebaker Bonneville effort of 1963 where Studebaker set over 330 speed records. As far as I know, #8 wasn't credited with any records. The Studebaker Avantis that were present were the red #8, the gold #9, and the 'Due Cento'. The gold Sears-Allstate 'cross country' Avanti (Paula Murphy) also made an appearance I think. And several different Studebaker Larks and Hawks were also there.

-So that Allstate car was gold? Do you know of any color pics of it? In my mind I saw it as Turquoise.

Also, would it make sense to you that Champion would use the #8 car in advertisement if it was only a backup car and never took a run or set a record?

[mfg]

I'm 99% sure that the Allstate Avanti was 'Avanti Gold'.....although I wouldn't bet my life on it! And,....I'd say that it does make sense that Champion would use #8 in their ads. For one thing, the darker color would stand out better in b/w photos. Also, the average Joe would have no idea which Avanti set what record, as, at the time, Studebaker wasn't really specific about that.

[Gunslinger]

The number 8 car wasn't intended to be a backup car. During test runs it overheated so it fell to the number 9 car to take the record runs by default. Which car was intended to be primary isn't known as far as I've understood but it ultimately didn't matter.

[64Avanti]

And of course there is one other Avanti that has raced at Bonneville.

[Palantirion]

In case you were wondering why I was asking these questions...

http://www.aoai.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=3421