mfg Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 Met up with Dave Thibeault last week, and He showed Me an unfinished aluminum R3 style header He'll be marketing. Looks just like the original Stude cast iron type...but much lighter. First-class workmanship I thought!
PackardV8 Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 Agree, it looks very nice. Of the experts to whom I've spoken there's about a 50/50 extreme of opinion. Half say it will melt into a puddle at highway speeds; how many other cast aluminum headers do you see for sale? None, because aluminum won't stand the heat. The other half say no problem. I've decided not to be the first one to find out. jack vines
Gunslinger Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 Back in the early '60s when Pontiac was building fast 421 engined cars with the "Swiss Cheese" frames to reduce weight, they also used aluminum headers. They had a reputation that after the end of the run there was molten aluminum dripping on the pavement. At York I was talking to Dave T-Bow about them and he assured me that the melting problem wouldn't be an issue. I don't understand the engineering of it all to be sure. Maybe modern casting techniques are so much better...or maybe the casting techniques of the early '60s were so bad...or just that Pontiac considered them expendable from the beginning so casting quality wasn't a necessity. I'm with Jack...I wouldn't want to be the first to find out. I'd be happy to see others try them and see what kind of track record they would build up in use.
Avanti83 Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 Aluminum melts at 1220 deg F. The alloys can move that slightly but that's the neighborhood. It's not hard to put a thermocouple in a cast iron manifold before one buys. If one wanted them badly enough, a quick experiment should add confidence to the purchase.
mfg Posted March 25, 2014 Author Report Posted March 25, 2014 I was wondering about the heat situation too. I'll bet the regular Stude metal shim exhaust manifold gaskets are out, and some type of thicker composite gasket would need to be used with these aluminum headers. Still, a lean running engine may push the limits!
Gunslinger Posted March 25, 2014 Report Posted March 25, 2014 I believe there's no question a quality gasket would be necessary. Aluminum and cast iron expand and contract at different rates so it would likely start leaking fairly quickly. There would need to be some material between them to fill the gaps.
SBCA96 Posted April 15, 2014 Report Posted April 15, 2014 If I might chime in here with something to ponder .... there are quite a number of Alum aftermarket heads seeing use everyday, not too mention in the OEM market. GM used aluminum heads on the LT1 dating back to 1992. My 1993 Camaro Z28 is still running with 270k on the clock and the heads have never been off. I would have to assume that even with water cooling the temperatures in the combustion chambers would cause issues if there was a problem. Also, the ports leading out of the heads dont see much cooling, how do they keep from melting? I agree I went through the same "wait a minute" thought process when I heard of these .... iron is still the OEM choice for exhaust manifolds, my bigger concern was the heat they would give off... Tom
PackardV8 Posted April 15, 2014 Report Posted April 15, 2014 there are quite a number of Alum aftermarket heads seeing use everyday, not too mention in the OEM market. GM used aluminum heads on the LT1 dating back to 1992. My 1993 Camaro Z28 is still running with 270k on the clock and the heads have never been off. I would have to assume that even with water cooling the temperatures in the combustion chambers would cause issues if there was a problem. Also, the ports leading out of the heads dont see much cooling, how do they keep from melting? I agree I went through the same "wait a minute" thought process when I heard of these .... iron is still the OEM choice for exhaust manifolds, my bigger concern was the heat they would give off... Tom I respect Dave's experience and expertise. He may know something we don't, but I await an R2 or R3 racer bringing back sustained full throttle success stories. Heads do have coolant circulating around the exhaust passages, so it's a completely different stress level. Your own argument is that you've never seen an engine with a warranty running aluminum exhaust manifolds. Even stock engines in dyno tests will have the iron or stainless steel exhaust manifolds glowing red hot, far above the melting point of aluminum, in just a couple of minutes at full throttle. Engines with thermocouples in the headers often see 1500 degrees. Aluminum softens above 600 degrees and by 1200 is a molten puddle. jack vines
SBCA96 Posted April 15, 2014 Report Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) How well have the aluminum Studebaker heads held up at the exhaust ports? I recall them being rather long and couldnt possibly have "coolant circulating around" them. Just saying that I would be quite surprised a casting company would make a part they know will not hold up ... though I am also concerned and voiced that to Dave as well. Tom Edited April 15, 2014 by SBCA96
mfg Posted April 15, 2014 Author Report Posted April 15, 2014 Well, one thing's for sure, Dave will stand behind anything that he sells! Just be sure to follow his install instructions.
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