Gunslinger
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Posts posted by Gunslinger
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I'll be looking at an 88 Avanti later this week. I know it does not have hog troughs but is mounted on a full Chevy frame. Does this in any way compromise the handling characteristics, ride, steer etc. It has a 305 rather than the 350 I would prefer. Should I expect noticeably different acceleration, top end etc? How is this year production viewed compared to older or more recent models/
Thanks, Sal
I would think the car would likely perform as good or better than the Chevy it's based on...lighter fiberglass (or Kevlar) body compared to the original steel body. I understand the concern regarding the 305 engine compared to a 350, but you have to take into account few cars contemporary to it had any better performance. Today it might seem sluggish by comparison, but that can be taken car of by either an engine transplant or some work on the 305, depending on how it runs now and cost/benefit analysis of building the 305 up vs. a new crate engine.
This is my opinion and mine only, so take it with a grain of salt...the advantages of the '88 is a more modern chassis and its better handling over the 1953 design Studebaker chassis. I think availability of chassis parts is probably a wash as Stude parts are easy to come by, though you do have to order them and wait a week for delivery rather than go to a local parts store and ask for chassis parts for a Monte Carlo. The Chevy suspension is far more parts friendly should you desire some performance upgrades. The disadvantages are many of the interior and engine bay parts are non-standard compared to GM or earlier Avanti's and can be difficult to source if needed. Finding exterior trim like the rubber bumpers can be problematic to find should that be necessary. The later cars are definitely nice cars and have a high level of trim and comfort. Maybe someone who owns one of them can give a first hand account of the pluses and minuses of that generation Avanti.
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Considering the age of the car and not knowing what previous owners have done, it may not have the original handle or washer anymore. That chrome ring might be an aftermarket universal piece...check and see if it has an Allen screw holding it onto the knurled knob...if so you'll ned an Allen wrench to remove it.
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The interior is vinyl...that's what Studebaker installed. If it's leather, it's been done by a previous owner. As far as the shocks, mufflers, etc., it all depends on how original and correct you want the car. If the Koni's are in good shape, why change them? Avanti's did have a supercharger option...a Paxton SN-60 to be precise. Photos would help to identify it as the proper supercharger. If your car came from the factory that way, you should also have "Supercharged" or "Supercharged Avanti" emblems on the front quarter panels between the tire openings and the front doors.
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What I did with the loose sunvisors in the '63 I used to own was pull the chrome brackets, wrap some electrical tape around them and reinstall. The tape was inside the sunvisor so it wasn't visible and made them nice and tight and they worked fine.
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My own view is ALL Avanti's are of real importance. Some may have more significance than others, but all are examples of a very limited production automobile that is recognized by the Milestone Car Society as a genuine Milestone Car. I know that due to condition, accidents and economics some are better off parted out. That doesn't mean I have to like it, but another fact is we need donor cars to keep others on the road.
I also wouldn't characterize '64s as of no real importance as they're also examples of all the running change improvements made in the line since production began. In pure numbers, that can make them significant due to their relative rarity proportionately. I know many like the round headlight '63s better, but that's an aesthetic view.
The number I've seen most often is just over 800 true '64 Avanti's were built...that includes square headlight versions and some round headlight versions...I've seen numbers ranging from 30+ to about eighty round headlight cars that are true '64 model year production. There are also numerous '63s not sold and were simply titled as '64s when they did get sold. There were also a handful of prototypes given new serial numbers and sold as '64s also. An accurate set of numbers as to true production is hard to come by...if at all. Without looking at every build sheet for every Avanti built, and building a data base, we'll never know the true figures, and that doesn't take into account those '63s sold and titled as '64s by the dealers.
None of us can tell you whether to sell the '64. It's all a matter of what it's worth to you as it is or for potential sale. Factor into that what someone would be willing to pay you for it can make a difference. An R2 brings a premium...if you have a 4-speed transmission that's another bonus. Some people want a car already restored and want to jump in, turn the key and go. Others don't mind finishing the restoration. All that factors in.
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The first production square headlight Avanti was R4892 so your car is about 77 cars in line behind that in receiving the square headlight treatment, though round headlights were still available as an option until the parts for them ran out. Whether any round headlight cars were actually factory assembled I don't know...I've not seen one but it's possible. There were something like 800+ true '64 Avanti's built with the square headlights. Yours is not rare among '64s, but it most definitely the more uncommon Studebaker Avanti design as all the previous 4600 or so Avanti's were of the round headlight variety...outside of factory specials like R4130 which was the test car for the '64 changes and became Sherwood Egbert's car.
As far as restoring it completely...your money and your choice. It's your car so do what makes you happy.
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I don't believe you'll find the parts at a local parts supplier...even if they listed them, they'd have to order them. You're better off getting the parts from Jon Myers, Studebaker International or Nostalgic Motors. They keep them in stock and you'll know they're the correct parts.
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It could be the rubber brake hose. Even if it looks good on the outside, with age they can collapse inside and create a blockage. If you don't know how old the hoses are, it wouldn't be a bad idea to replace all of them, front and rear. I've also had a car that wouldn't bleed from a front caliper...the caliper seal had rolled over and instead of leaking fluid, it was sucking air in.
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You have it correctly...you use the eccentrics to adjust the brakes. If you don't already have the shop manual, you should get one.
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What's the serial number on the block? It should start with a "B". You need the casting numbers from the heads, but some late R3's came with R2 cylinder heads. Other things to look for that certainly could have been changed over the years are five oil breather caps...two on each valve cover and a fifth from a pipe going to the crankcase. It should have transistorized ignition (which could have been changed), an air cleaner/filter assembly in front of the radiator, and the obvious carburetor enclosure, but many R2's have had them added to simulate the R3 look. A genuine R3 block should be painted red rather than black, but that also could have been changed over time.
There's other indicators but the best thing is the engine serial number.
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If you look at the transmission pan you can tell by the shape. A TH350 pan is square with one corner cut off and the TH400 is kind of irregularly shaped. Here's pics of custom pans for the two and you can see the difference.
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Welcome to the group!
Try Classic Enterprises for information on hog troughs. Classic Enterprises
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The '84 Avanti was built on the original Studebaker Avanti frame, which was itself a modification of the '63 Lark convertible frame, which again was a modification o the '53 Studebaker frame...just evolved and strengthened as time and needs changed. The engine is a small block Chevy which should be quite familiar. Avanti used the Studebaker frame through 1985. There are a few changes you may need to be aware of...by 1984 the rear brakes were no longer the original Studebaker/Bendix design. I believe they were GM in origin, but parts are available.
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They were all equipped with the chrome Studebaker emblem on the trunk. I've never seen a '63-'64 Avanti without it that wasn't the result of someone removing it and glassing over the holes. There are access holes on the interior of the trunk lid for the speed nuts that retain the studs of the emblem. The owner can look in there and see if he sees signs of glassing in the mounting holes. If there's no evidence of filler, then it's likely a replacement trunk lid.
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The heads are identical...whatever one has, so does the other.
You might have a clogged PCV valve. That can cause that. Usually, but not always, besides oil you'll notice white milky crap as well. If that's the problem, clean or replace the valve. If that doesn't do it, you might have excessively worn rings or clogged oil passages. You can run a can of engine flush through it, then change the oil immediately and see if that helps.
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On the Youtube page with the Avanti introduction film, someone posted a story I've never heard...
He calims to have had an Avanti II with a Corvette frame, powered by an Olds engine.
Okay, 87-89 Avantis had Chevy frames...I've heard Caprice and Monte Carlo...but never a Corvette.
Would a C2-C3 Corvette frame even work?
And I know later all GM engines were generic (after they got sued by an owner of an Olds who found out that his didn't have the advertised "Rocket V-8" but instead had a Chevy) and I suppose you could put an Olds engine in an Avanti...but still...
Anyone else ever herad anything like this?
I have my '70 Avanti in the garage sitting next to a C3 (1969) Corvette...believe me, it would take either shortening an Avanti body or stretching a C3 frame to even come close to visually fitting. The Corvette has a wheelbase of 10"-11" shorter than the Avanti. That's not even allowing for frame attaching points, suspension, etc. If someone had enough money, time and engineering talent, I guess anything is possible, but what would be the point? It would be easier to do what a few Avanti owners have done...convert to an independent rear suspension and 4-wheel disc brakes.
It was around 1977 that GM changed all GM engines to "corporate" engines rather than identified by individual divisions...all became painted "Corporate Blue". There's been lots of different engines dropped into Avanti's over the years...Olds, Buick, Chevy (small and big block), Cadillac, probably even Ford and Mopar...V8 and V6. Just because someone can do it doesn't make it a match made in heaven. Who knows what kind of quality was done in some conversions? Some might have been very professional and some might have been poor to say the least. It makes me wonder what the end result was...whether it was worth all the effort involved.
Now...I have wondered how my Avanti would perform if I dropped in the 427 Tri-Power from the Vette! I'm guessing the front end bias would be so bad once the back tires stopped smoking, the car's steering would be so out of balance it could be dangerous in any direction but a straight line.
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All the instruments use a number 57R bulb...simply a number 57 with a red coloring. I don't know what the "or" must mean...could be a manual misprint or an abbreviation that could mean you can use one number or another...just a guess.
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I have Edelbrock IAS shocks on mine...modified from Camaro/Firebird shocks. They work just fine. While I'm not aware of any direct crossover from another make for the rear, the front will directly interchange with shocks for a '63-"65 Buick Riviera...same part number, but those won't likely be in stock at most places but can be ordered.
A potential problem you might run into is there seems to be some variation in shocks...some will have the attaching cross bar too short and you have to re-use the present ones in your old shocks...just use the new bushings with them.
Many of the Stude/Avanti vendors sell gas shocks for an Avanti at reasonable prices.
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"Is that a Corvette?"
"Is that a Cadillac?"
"Is it one of the ones made in Canada?"
"Does it have the Ford engine?"
"Is it Italian?"
"Was it made in France?"
"I've never heard of it but it's the best looking car I've ever seen!" (by a comely young lady when she saw my '02 Avanti)
Also...lots of thumbs up by other drivers in cars and on motorcycles.
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Nice looking convert. The Buy Me price of $49K is probably close to the Reserve Price.
A while back on EBAY was that Red 2007 Convert from the Detroit area. Think the Buy now price was around $49k also. Not sure what happened to that Ebay bid. Anyone know the status of that Avanti ?
Thx,
Jerry
PS - Bruce, Hope you can clear all that snow this weekend from your Driveway. It's nice and warm down here in Ft. Lauderdale area. Might wash both cars today in my Driveway.
Jerry...
As of 9AM, the snow was 29" deep in the front yard and is supposed to keep coming down until 10PM this evening.
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There's a number of good electric fuel pumps on the market...check Summit Racing or Jegs. They pretty much sell the same brands so it's based on who has the best price after you decide which to go with. One big advantage to an electric pump is there's no diaphragm to tear or break and dump gasoline right into the crankcase (been there done that with the '63 I used to own).
A couple of recommendations...an electric pump is meant to go back by the tank rather than under the hood. Electric pumps are more efficient at pushing fuel rather than pulling it like a mechanical pump does. You may need an adjustable regulator so you don't flood the carburetor. Also make sure you get pressurized fuel hose as regular gas line hose can burst under pressure. If you have the stock AM radio, you may need to add some shielding around an electric pump or you may get interference in the audio...back by the fuel tank mounted within some frame rails it may be sufficiently shielded. Also...electric pumps tend to be a bit noisy in their own right...some maybe better or worse than others, but you get used to the whine.
You can also mount a fuel filter close to the pump and that can clean up the appearance under the hood a bit. I would not use a plastic or glass fuel filter since they're under pressure. Get a metal fuel filter that has threaded connections since clamp-on types also aren't good for pressurized systems.
While you're back under the rear of the car putting the system together, you may want to consider installing a shut-off valve...not necessary but does make it easier when servicing the system later for any reasons.
When wiring the pump, connect it to the "run" side of the ignition...not the "accessory" side. The instructions that come with it should say that.
I'm not saying all this is difficult or not desirable, just trying to let you know some of the things you have to be prepared for. An electric fuel pump is a different animal from a conventional mechanical one. Here's a pic of the installation in my '70. It's not that great a view but you should be able to get an idea...
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I saw that on Ebay earlier today...the driver's seat has wear in the same place as on my '02, though mine has far less wear as my car has only 5k miles on it. It kind of amazes me that the seating (presumably GM) is of such poor quality leather it wears so quickly and in so few miles. If there's anything that disappoints me about the car, that would be it. I know leather needs particular care to maintain its appearance and suppleness (which mine gets)...especially in a convertible, but this is really cheapening out in materials.
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Even if it could verified it came from Johnny's car, I don't see why it would mean anything...it's just a chassis, not a complete car that could tell us something about Johnny's tastes. Maybe bragging rights if that means anything. I always thought Johnny owned an Avanti II, but don't know that with any certainty.
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I think that would be a good suggestion. I make a motion now for the AOAI Board of Directors to consider doing so. They can decide whether to make a formal request of the Studebaker National Museum to investigate that possibility or directly to the Cafaro's. Since there is no Avanti National Museum, the SNM is the natural venue to receive the mold.
Since the mold is located at the old Youngstown factory, and I assume the Cafaro's still own it and the contents, then the mold belongs to them. Maybe they could take a nice tax break by donating it, assuming they haven't depreciated it completely by now. There's also the possibility of some Avanti aficionado obtaining it as a collectible, but I see that as less likely.
If no one asks, then the answer is always no.
88 avanti. Your opinion?
in 1984-91 Avanti
Posted
I never would have guessed the same chassis with an Avanti body would weigh more than with its original steel body. I wonder if the GM specs for the Mone Carlo's weight were wrong? Maybe it depends on how "empty" weight is measured...with or without fuel, etc?