Bob Preston

Thanks. I’ve adorned it with a 1962 Michigan plate and a 1963 tag. No plates were made for 1963. The white plate is nearly a perfect match to the Avanti White and the green letters/numbers and tag look nice. I’m strangely attracted to peculiar items, hence the decision to get an Avanti rather than a corvette, GTO, mustang, chevelle, T-bird, etc. While I’m not terribly fixated on uniqueness, the Deluxe interior sets it apart from most Avanti’s. About 1 in 9 ‘63 R2’s with automatic transmissions were equipped with the 7xx trim code and Orange was the least popular color other than “Special”. 63R-1001 was Avanti White with Deluxe/Orange interior, however it had the 4-speed. It’s more of a project than I wanted, but it was starting to look like any choice was going to be a project to some degree. On the positive side, I’ll know exactly what’s been done and it’s going to be very mechanically sound.

Aardvark, One possible flaw in your system is that your 7 might be my 4. I’m new to the forum. That said, some of your posts suggest that you may be willing to accept imperfections that others would not. It’s easy to focus on our own particular situation. Allow me to provide some information from my perspective, which is considerably different than yours. I’ve been watching the 63-64 Avanti market for a couple of years. In particular the R2’s. Over the past 4 months I looked a 4. One via a 3rd party inspection and appraisal, because I didn’t want to invest the time and money in a trip to see it until I had more information. That car was on the market for about 4 months, had a price reduction during that time and was taken off the market because the owner decided not to sell. The other 3 I looked at in person. One in Connecticut, which had been for sale in Tennessee. It’s still for sale and has been for about a year. It sold at auction for $37,500 and is listed at $58,000. On a 1-10 scale, it’s a 6, but priced like a 8 or 9. I won’t list the deficiencies noted on a quick look over and a short test drive. Another one, in Ohio, is priced at $54,900 and that’s Bob’s “I don’t want to sell it” price. It’s an original barn find. He wouldn’t allow a test drive because the tires are so old. It’s been listed for quite awhile. I’d give it a 5, or a 6 if originality is key. Another one in Michigan, was also listed for $54,900. I gave it a 6 and bought it for $48,000. The orange, Deluxe, interior is excellent. Paint (white) is believed to be original with a few chips touched up. It doesn’t “need” paint, but would look fantastic if repainted. Doors, windows, hood and trunk all fit well and open and close properly. Chrome and glass are very good. It’s on the rack getting new suspension bushings and shocks, wheel bearings, some power steering components, rotors and hubs (calipers were recently replaced) glass packs and tail pipes, an electronic ignition and some other miscellaneous items. FWIW: I took out a loan to facilitate the purchase. I’m retired but have the cash flow to make payments. One thing about retirement is that you switch from saving to spending. My money is working for me and I prefer not to spend it down. The credit union wanted to see comps, so I emailed them a handful of listings of recently sold R2’s from Classic.com, most were in the mid-40’s, so they placed a value of $45,000 on the car when determining the loan amount. It was approved by the loan committee. In a few weeks I’ll have a car that I’d give a 7 or maybe an 8. I hope this helps you understand a different perspective. Merry Christmas, Bob

Merry Christmas. It’s interesting that you don’t show respect my opinion about your statement. Now you’ve resorted to telling me what I should do. I'm open to listening to how the statement has substance, originality or adds meaningfully to the conversation. Another cliché probably won’t suffice. Here’s another opinion to consider. Statements like “Your car is worth whatever the next guy is willing to pay” are just attempts to marginalize and dismiss a discussion. It’s great that you have it all figured out. Other folks might still want to discuss the subject. If you watch the entire film, animated or live action, you’ll see that the grinch doesn’t steal Christmas.

Yes, inane. It’s a pointless comment that adds nothing to the discussion. I suspect that your sharp enough to serve up more than platitudes.

What is the issue? Completely dead, just a click, cranking slowly…?

Your statement is true, however it is also rather inane. It’s similar to the phrase “It is what it is” which is known to drive Jerry Seinfeld mad. If there is a point to this thread it is that a value needs to be determined before a car is listed for sale. Few buyers would offer anything close to a fair price if the seller didn’t ask for something close to a fair price as a starting point. I’d imagine that most forum members would perform their own due diligence before buying or selling a classic car, in the same way that someone in the housing market would do some research. Houses typically sell close to their asking prices or appraised values. Past sales data helps determine the market. It isn’t just a shot in the dark. For the sake of this tread, I’m not interested in investing the time to compile the data necessary to answer the original question. In my opinion, the approach taken won’t yield meaningful results, however there will be some useful information posted here and there.

A great deal of what has been said are anecdotal stories that reflect individual circumstances. That won’t answer the original question. Some sales data and valuations from Classic.com and Hagerty has been provided. We can argue against or dismiss the data in the same way that we can disagree with an appraisal on a house. The reality is that the bank uses the appraisal to determine the loan amount, so that’s a large part of what determines home values. Same principle applies to vehicles. We need to use the available data to determine values rather than using the values owners believe their vehicles have. What I’ve learned is that some folks want others to do their work for them. And others, who most likely have an interest in the value of their car, pretend they don’t when they grow tired of a nonproductive discussion.

It shouldn’t be a news flash to anyone. It may be news to some that your Avanti isn’t my Avanti or the next guys Avanti. So without some knowledge and history of previous sales it would be next to impossible for a seller to ask a reasonable price or for a buyer to make a reasonable offer. There are numerous variables, one guys “nice” example might be another guys train wreck, but the information is useful. It isn’t likely that you’d put yours up for “Make an Offer” and sell at the first offer. If you do, I may want to take a look.

We know what happens when we assume. There will always be a “market”. The unanswerable question is, what will that market look like? To your original post, the answer is out there. It just takes some effort to discover. It doesn’t require an educated guess. I’ve put in all the effort I care to on the subject. Here it is. From Classic.com between 2022-2025, 28 R-2’s (1963-64) were sold for an average price of $45,900. The lowest price was $15K, the highest was $88K. Six to eight cars were sold each year. By year, the average selling price was: 2022 $38,500 2023 $57,600 (3 of 6 sales were over $70K) 2024 $42,150 2025 $45,375 This being your idea, perhaps you could build a spreadsheet to which other members could add data. In my opinion these endeavors are akin to picking fly droppings out of pepper, however some folks enjoy the process.

Details please.

A post on the other thread discussing the same topic indicates that there was some hacking involved.

Allegedly, the site was hacked and ransom exceeding the administrator’s salary by many multiples is being demanded. It is clearly a high value target.

Why then, are so many Avantis equipped with orange superchargers? The production data booklet shows a photo of a pre-production R2 engine with a black supercharger and a caption that reads “Production cars were fitted with orange superchargers from the factory.”

The quote “Price is what you pay, value is what you get” is attributed to Warren Buffet/Benjamin Graham. Price is arbitrary, value is fundamental. Determining the value of a stock is difficult and complicated, however getting a reasonably accurate result is possible. Finding stocks that were priced below their value made Mr Buffet a wealthy man. Determining the value of a 60 year old vehicle may be as difficult as determining the value of a publicly traded company. Each of the ~4500, ‘63-‘64 Avanti's would need to be evaluated on an individual basis. At this point in their lives, no 2 cars are going to be in the same condition. This makes it unreasonable to state a value for, say all ‘63 R1’s. Some are projects, both big and small, some will be DIY jobs others will be farmed out at current shop rates. Some will be nice drivers, others may win a ribbon at a local car show, a few will be trailer queens. True or not, it is often said in the classic car collector world, that you’re better off buying a car that someone else fixed or restored. Not everyone wants a project. They want a car that can be driven for fun and shown simply for the sake of showing it to others. They are frequently bought with disposable income and little to no intent of ever being sold. What we end up with are broad strokes of ratings from 1-4, when it should probably be 1-100. Then we get an average for each group. It’s the best we can do unless we have each car appraised and then add that information to the registry.

There’s another site called classic.com that provides valuations based on sales. Is it more accurate than Hagerty or BAT, who knows? Just another data point. Because of a nearly infinite number of variables it is next to impossible to say that a 1963 R2 with a 4-speed, 50K miles in #2 condition (who’s #2?) is worth X dollars. On the subject of turning a profit, there are a couple of things to keep in mind. One is the true cost of the project. Everyone I know always wins in Vegas. The reality is that it just isn’t possible. Another is that what one believes their vehicle is worth isn’t what a buyer thinks it is worth. Additionally, when the value of an item increases over time, it is likely that the value of similar items have increased as well. A hobby that has to be a profitable business venture, is a job, not a hobby. There are certainly a number of big and small operations that are buying and selling classic cars. Most appear to be doing quite well. For someone engaged in that activity, escalating prices would seem to be a desirable trend. I’ve had endless discussions with my dad about stock valuations and even the price of apples. It’s difficult to know if it just doesn’t make sense to him, if he truly doesn’t understand it, if he’s stuck in the past or if he just wants to carry on a discussion without realizing that he’s presenting himself as being somewhat uninformed. Similarly, a discussion about Avanti values will require a look at data and what is actually occurring in the market, rather than opinions and individual circumstances.

Interestingly, R-4200, which is currently for sale, had a final assembly date of 4/29/63 and a destination of Carmichael CA. The ad has photos of the production order and the serial number plate on the frame. No “A” is visible on either. This, just over 2 months after the internal memo posted previously. Perhaps the car was initially sold outside of CA and therefore did not require an additional digit to satisfy CA DMV. On edit: The registry shows 2 early owners in CA and a listing for the car from 2018 states that is was a CA car from new and remained in CA until 2017.

How about 5643?

It was delivered to Jackson, MS. Do we know its current location?

Perhaps this is a question for the trivia page. The production data booklet only mentions orange as the factory color.

Thanks. That’s the conclusion we reached, however I haven’t seen that part on a diagram in the parts catalog. I’ll look to see if it’s addressed in the shop manual Our diesel motorhome also returns unused fuel to the tank. In this situation the returning fuel is warmer than the fuel in the tank. Over time and as the fuel level in the tank decreases the fuel temperature can increase to a point where performance can be negatively impacted. We’ve made a practice of filling the tank after we’ve used about half the fuel, or about 60 gallons, particularly on hot days. Just need to find a new kicker.

Dave’s voicemail box is full. I’ll try the kicker adjustment suggestion when the car is back on the ground. I’m fortunate to have a friend/neighbor/car enthusiast who has a nice shop setup in his pole barn and has a retired mechanic who works a few hours a day at a reasonable rate to do most of the work. We were under it yesterday and found a few more parts that are in need of replacing. For lack of a better description, the plunger on the kicker feels sticky, crusty and requires quite a bit of effort to push in. Maybe that’s normal and a small adjustment will resolve the issue? Another peculiarity we discovered is a second fuel line running alongside the fuel line shown in the parts diagram, with the drain plug on the driver’s side, that goes from the fuel pump back to the fuel tank. I didn’t see a tread that covered the subject, so I’m adding it to this one. Should I start a separate thread for that or are a fuel line and a throttle kicker close enough relatives for the same thread?

Thanks. I’ll measure the voltages to confirm. The transistorized ignition I plan to install it the factory option #196. It is not a full electronic ignition. To my original questions. Does the installation of the transistorized ignition eliminate the ignition resistor? If not, where can I order one? Can the throttle kicker be reconditioned/rebuilt? If not, where can I order one?

New member, new owner. Recently purchased a 63 R2 automatic. Currently working on replacing most suspension components (bushings and shocks) rebuilding the power steering pump and hydraulic cylinder. After experiencing difficulties in starting the engine the ignition resistor was bypassed and it fired right up. My plan is to install the transistorized ignition, which I understand, bypasses/eliminates the resistor. I was unable to source a resistor. Thoughts on the above? Second issue was high idle. Current solution was removing the throttle kicker and plugging the vacuum hose. Idles perfectly now. Currently unable to source a kicker. Any ideas? Is the kicker serviceable? The action seems very stiff, IMO too stiff for the vacuum to operate properly, if at all. On a side note, there was initially considerable smoke, particularly from the drivers side which has now almost completely cleared since removing the kicker. My brother in law commented that he thought the smoke was fuel related rather than oil/piston ring related. I’m sure I’ll have a few more questions. Thanks in advance.