Bob Preston

The post wasn’t about you.

There’s a similar discussion going on on another manufacturer forum. It’s more about the current market and I’d say that the market is similar for all 60’s “muscle cars” in general. One point mentioned was demographics. Many owners of cars from the 60’s were teenagers back then and are now in their 70’s and 80’s. They probably have one or more cars already and given their age aren’t in the market for another. The speculation was that younger folks with disposable income, looking to buy a vintage car might be in the market for cars from the 70’s-90’s. Another point was that a large percentage of owners have made their cars trailer queens and they’re only seen at car shows, if that. The idea here was to leave a few concourse points off the renovation and take the thing out so people can see it. One more thought was that people see a 1965 Fill in the Blank sell at Mecum for $100,000, so they’re all worth $100,000. This is along the lines of sellers believing they have a car that is one number higher than the actual condition would indicate The person who opened the discussion had his car listed for months, with little to no action. He lowered the price as well as stating that it was also OBO. One complication with OBO is that the seller has to actually commit to selling it for the best offer. If it’s listed for $30K but he won’t sell for an offer of $25K even though that is the best offer received, it isn’t really for sale for the best offer. It’s for sale for a price that’s fixed in his head and he’ll wait until that offer appears.

My interpretation is that it would have been something other than the listed colors. During production Black was discontinued as a “Standard” color, being replaced with Gray. However, Black was still available as a special order at an additional cost and the number of Black cars produced in both ‘63 & ‘64 is provided in the Production Data booklet.

Starting with R-4835 32 Black 153 White 138 Turquoise 104 Gold 224 Red 77 Gray 80 Maroon 1 Special

I’d call it “correct” rather than original. I think some of the suspension bushings and rubber parts on mine may have been “original”. It wasn’t that pleasant to drive with those old parts.

One thing is for sure, your acquaintance won’t be attempting the record in a Studebaker. Do you know the category he’s entering?

Sure, there’s always going to be that guy. Probably 99 out of 100 owners of drivable ‘63-‘64 Avanti’s have them in a “mostly” original condition. Unless your buddy chimes in, we aren’t likely to hear stories of drastic modifications. I’d like to see Mr Saltflat try it the same way Granatelli did, by building out the engine and strapping on a helmet rather than making the attempt in a Corvette.

I spent several years browsing the market for a ‘63-‘64. One had a GM transmission, a few R1’s had been converted to R2’s, even more had undergone an engine rebuild and had been bored out. Some may have actually had the same displacement as an R3. Few, if any had received the moderate suspension upgrades seen on the R3. The car doesn’t lend itself to HotRod modifications, not that someone won’t try. It’s an interesting and stylish coupe that landed on a truck chassis. Had Studebaker remained in business and followed the Big 3 with similar performance upgrades throughout the 1960’s, we might have a market full of big blocks with 3 carburetors. That could be why we don’t see too many 10 second Avanti’s with parachutes. I wouldn’t touch the bodywork on the original. That goes for both round and square headlights.

What constitutes 100% original? Does it need to have the original shocks, engine mounts, leaf spring bushings, gaskets and light bulbs, for example? If the original engine has been rebuilt and bored is it still “original”? Mine has the roof drip moldings and air intake grill which were not original to the car. There’s an “original” ‘63 R1 with 16,000 miles listed for $79K. That’s about twice the price of some otherwise very nice R1’s. In theory it’s worth more, but there will be fewer buyers for that particular vehicle. Price and condition are both obstacles to most buyers and if it is all original, it’s probably going to need some work. Personally, I’m in favor of mostly original, but I’m mostly in favor of a mechanically sound car that presents well and gets driven. I appreciate the trailer queens and museum pieces and applaud the efforts of those who have a more radical vision. If we all did the same thing we wouldn’t have anything to talk about.

The new condo option was an attempt at humor. Check the CC&R’s at they may prohibit the steel plate option. The 2x12 will eventually split, so a more durable solution would be to double or triple layer some 3/4” plywood with wood glue. All that’s really necessary are 2 pieces about 12”x18” for the tires to drive over. They could be stored in the trunk. Alternatively, a couple pieces of horse mat might do the trick.

Did you try backing in to the garage from the street? It could be worse but may be worth a try. Depends on the crown in the road. Another option would be to lay a 2x12 in the gutter to lift the car up just before the point of impact. Lastly, buy another condo.

I was able to access the site this morning, join the forum and view threads and posts.

Below are more 5-year sales charts for a random selection of classic cars. FWIW: I’ve also included a 5-year chart for a S&P 500 index fund.

The sale price for R-3080 was revised to $41,888 as of this morning. Below are two screenshots that show average sale prices for R1’s and R2’s.

I had a heck of a time joining this forum. The Fort Knox security question kept showing “unsuccessful” despite providing the correct answer. Somehow, I managed to get an email address for Lewis Schucart, contacted him directly, and he was able to create a profile for me.

Great idea. As a new Avanti owner and new forum member, I’ll probably have a number of questions that have already been asked and answered. I’ve got a good mechanic on the job, but it is his first Studebaker. Dan Booth, Dave Thibeault and Tommy Myers in CA have all been helpful on the phone, but I don’t want to take up their time with a bunch of questions.

63R-3080, a 1963 R2 with a GM automatic transmission just sold at auction for a hair under $45K. It had undergone a refurbishment in 2007-8 that included an engine rebuild.

Thank you.

Not sure I’d call it a “beef”. The broad picture is that you’ve made a number of derogatory comments about anyone who does things differently than you. Everyone is an idiot or a fool with their money. “Typical Americans” spending their own money however they choose. Shameful, isn’t it. You’re obviously the smartest guy in the room. Well, maybe the second smartest. I’m no longer listening to the smartest guy in the room, so by default, you’re the smartest guy in my room at the moment. I’m still reading the room. So far it doesn’t really seem like you want to share ideas or listen and try to understand experiences other than your own. What you do is your business. Same goes for the rest of us. Let’s try talking cars and prices and see if we can look past the differences we may have with others.

You actually started this thread to ask about average selling prices. Or so it seems.

Then help me understand, because your words suggest otherwise. Since the get go you’ve been focused on your ability to buy cars that magically appreciate in value by at least 50% once you hold the title. But anyone who would pay your price has to be a fool with more money than brains, because an intelligent person would pay the price you paid. There’s no way your buyers can make 50% unless they find a bigger fool. This is the pot calling the kettle black. The cars that I’ve lost a small fortune on were tools that allowed me to get to work and make a larger fortune. I bought a number of used cars while working. The people that sold them to me lost their asses and so did I. Now, in retirement, I’ve starting buying new cars as daily drivers because I have the cash flow and I no longer need to focus on saving money. An interesting fact about real estate prices is that if your house doubles in value, so does every other house in the neighborhood. Unless your willing to downsize or move down market and realize some of those gains the increase in value useless. You may have started this thread to see how others approach buying and selling, but you only seem interested in talking about your method and you’re quite dismissive of other methods. Again, that’s just my take on your words.

Where did I say it is a problem? I simply shared my interpretation of some of the things you’ve said in this thread. It is of no concern to me that you need to buy and sell cars at a profit in order to take part in the hobby of collecting classic cars. What strikes me as peculiar is the level of animosity you seem to have toward others who aren’t concerned about making a profit on every vehicle they buy. Those folks are your customers. “Beware” of what? FWIW: I have a truck and a motorhome currently for sale, both at prices below what I paid for them. That makes me a seller. With the exception on one motorcycle that I owned for a short period of time in the 1980’’s, every vehicle has been sold for less than the price paid and I haven’t counted the number or totaled the losses. That may make me a foolish, out of touch loser in your book, but I’m satisfied with my lot in life. All the best. Happy new year.

You’re siting on unrealized gains. Of course, those “gains” are based on values that you have placed on the vehicles. Frankly, if I were engaged in a hobby/business where profitable sales were essential, I’d be selling as much as possible at 10%, 50% or 200% profit. Doing so could put you in a position where profit is no longer a factor. No disrespect, but you present yourself as someone who is the equivalent of “real estate poor”. You have a lot tied up in vehicles, your cash reserves are down and you can’t buy another car unless you sell one or two. That’s the message I’m getting, maybe I’ve misinterpreted what’s been said. You also seem to be trying to time the market, which rarely if ever yields positive results. My advice, take the profits. Rinse and repeat.

Thank you.

Does removal and replacement of the bushing and bearing in the steering knuckle require the specific tools mentioned in the workshop manual or will brute strength and awkwardness suffice? Thanks.