Bob Preston

Definitely. For someone who has to have the car, or is willing and able to spend without limits just for the sake of a restoration, none of the above applies. I have copies of receipts for the work performed on one of the vehicles I considered that total about $35K and that work was done 12-13 years ago. The 2 big ticket items were new paint and an engine rebuild. The paint was good, but far from flawless and there were a number of other issues that needed to be addressed, at least at the price point. On another one the seller claimed to have receipts totaling $57K which included an engine rebuild and new paint in a non-original color, also about 12 years ago. For me, a repaint in anything other than the original color gets a substantial reduction in value, even if it’s a flawless paint job. It does create a unique and personalized car, however, I believe radical modifications can limit the number of potential buyers, regardless of how cool they may be. In this case, I discussed with the seller that the price was appropriate for that car with the correct color paint, which to me meant that it would need to be repainted in order to achieve that value. I offered just $3500 less than the asking price (much less than the cost of a quality paint job) but that was $1500 below the lowest price they were willing to accept. I wouldn’t come up because there would have been added expenses in a trip to see the car and have it transported. The color was the dealbreaker. The car was inherited and had mostly sat in storage for the past 12+ years. Now it continues to sit due to an emotional attachment. This, of course, touches on the sellers perspective. If there’s an emotional or sentimental connection for the seller they may want to reconsider the idea of listing the car for sale.

Here’s a method that should work for many who want to determine a dollar value for a classic car. This isn’t a breakthrough discovery as I’d imagine that most use something similar even if they’re not aware of doing so. The objective is for an individual to put a value, in dollars, on a particular vehicle. This is a cold hearted calculation where the variables of emotions, sentiments and virtuosity are excluded. The first step is to establish a standard for the condition of the vehicle one would like to achieve. It could be concourse level, a decent car for local shows, a solid driver or a smoke spewing rattle trap with a family of raccoons in the back seat. Once we have the standard a dollar figure can be determined by analyzing recent sales. As an example, recent sales of ‘63-‘64 R2’s have topped out in the mid-$50’s. Less recently a couple sold in the $70’s. Based on photos and descriptions these cars would fit in the “decent car show category”. It would be reasonable to conclude that such a vehicle would have a value of $55K-70K, with the differences possibly being a flawless paint job compared to one with a few blemishes or perhaps a 4-speed vs automatic transmission. Regardless, we’ve established what could be called a reasonable maximum potential value for a particular model in a generalized specific condition. From here, the next step would be to calculate the cost to bring a subject vehicle up to the established standard. For some it may be $3000 in parts and materials and 2 months of their free time in the garage. For others it may be the same cost for parts plus $10,000 for someone else’s labor. In this example, the DIY buyer may be willing to pay more for the subject vehicle than the buyer who will need to farm out the work. This is just a look from a buyers perspective. Also keep in mind that you can’t pay too much for the right one but you can pay too little for the wrong one.

Dave mentioned it being the same as a ‘62 Oldsmobile. Those probably aren’t readily available either.

Thanks everyone. A new kicker from Dave is on the way. I’ve also decided to go with a full electronic ignition and will hold on to the original parts.

Someone else is wasting your time. In all probability you’ll continue to hear the same things from the same individuals. If you stop creating or participating in discussions out of concern for what someone else might say, then you’ve allowed yourself to be controlled by another person. You’ll have been silenced or bullied. That’s not a positive outcome. One option is to exclude certain posts from appearing on your screen. The other is to simply not respond. In my experience, the former is more effective. It’s also necessary to accept that others will see the posts that you do not see or respond to which could make you appear weak or timid, when in reality you’ve become more powerful. Currently you’re caught in a trap over semantics and emotions when the topic is car values. And I’m going on about something unrelated to car values as well. We can do better.

Thanks for another helpful and informative post. That’s what keeps these things alive.

Aardvark, I’d respond similarly in person. Of course, in person, we’d use our real names. Forums actually allow more time to write a response. It’s astounding that someone would be disturbed by a couple of folks discussing Avanti values in a thread with “Avanti Values” in the title. In person, I’d probably ask “What did you think we were going to talk about?” For someone who tells others they need to respect differing opinions yet fails to do so themselves, I’d call them a hypocrite. For someone who repeatedly takes jabs at a conversation because they believe it is pointless, I might suggest that they find someone else to talk to and strike up their own conversation. In between the disruptive posts, there has been a rational conversation. Now that I’ve deployed the ignore feature, perhaps it can continue without further interruption.

Here’s the deal. You can’t tell others what they should do. I’m not sure if you’re a moron or just want to argue. I just bought the damn car and it is being worked on so that I can drive it to the Gilmore for the Wednesday drive ins. I may drive it to the Studebaker Museum next summer. I don’t really care what it’s worth. Are you listening?

Good gravy, mfg, I’m not sure if you’re not listening, confused or both. What has you convinced that I might sell my “product” for a profit? If I go first, my wife is going to donate my car collection to The Gilmore Car Museum. Get over yourself. Why are grown men so sensitive?

I’d call you quitters but you keep posting.

Well, if we say it can’t be done, then we’re all quitters aren’t we? It’s pretty easy to shoot down every idea and it’s even easier to not present any solutions. Maybe it is time to move on.

To be clear, I saw 6’s that were/are priced in the mid-$50K’s. There are a few recent listings in the $70K’s. Those would have to be near Trailer Queen quality, in my opinion to justify those prices. My limited buying experience has shown that the hype in the description rarely matches the actual condition of the vehicle. Maybe I’m too demanding to think that both power windows should work, the tires shouldn’t have flat spots and the car shouldn’t pull to one side while braking on a car that’s priced like it might win best in show. Prices do seem to be trending upward on the 63-64’s, at least the ones listed online.

Thanks. I’ve adorned it with a 1962 Michigan plate and a 1963 tag. No plates were made for 1963. The white plate is nearly a perfect match to the Avanti White and the green letters/numbers and tag look nice. I’m strangely attracted to peculiar items, hence the decision to get an Avanti rather than a corvette, GTO, mustang, chevelle, T-bird, etc. While I’m not terribly fixated on uniqueness, the Deluxe interior sets it apart from most Avanti’s. About 1 in 9 ‘63 R2’s with automatic transmissions were equipped with the 7xx trim code and Orange was the least popular color other than “Special”. 63R-1001 was Avanti White with Deluxe/Orange interior, however it had the 4-speed. It’s more of a project than I wanted, but it was starting to look like any choice was going to be a project to some degree. On the positive side, I’ll know exactly what’s been done and it’s going to be very mechanically sound.

Aardvark, One possible flaw in your system is that your 7 might be my 4. I’m new to the forum. That said, some of your posts suggest that you may be willing to accept imperfections that others would not. It’s easy to focus on our own particular situation. Allow me to provide some information from my perspective, which is considerably different than yours. I’ve been watching the 63-64 Avanti market for a couple of years. In particular the R2’s. Over the past 4 months I looked a 4. One via a 3rd party inspection and appraisal, because I didn’t want to invest the time and money in a trip to see it until I had more information. That car was on the market for about 4 months, had a price reduction during that time and was taken off the market because the owner decided not to sell. The other 3 I looked at in person. One in Connecticut, which had been for sale in Tennessee. It’s still for sale and has been for about a year. It sold at auction for $37,500 and is listed at $58,000. On a 1-10 scale, it’s a 6, but priced like a 8 or 9. I won’t list the deficiencies noted on a quick look over and a short test drive. Another one, in Ohio, is priced at $54,900 and that’s Bob’s “I don’t want to sell it” price. It’s an original barn find. He wouldn’t allow a test drive because the tires are so old. It’s been listed for quite awhile. I’d give it a 5, or a 6 if originality is key. Another one in Michigan, was also listed for $54,900. I gave it a 6 and bought it for $48,000. The orange, Deluxe, interior is excellent. Paint (white) is believed to be original with a few chips touched up. It doesn’t “need” paint, but would look fantastic if repainted. Doors, windows, hood and trunk all fit well and open and close properly. Chrome and glass are very good. It’s on the rack getting new suspension bushings and shocks, wheel bearings, some power steering components, rotors and hubs (calipers were recently replaced) glass packs and tail pipes, an electronic ignition and some other miscellaneous items. FWIW: I took out a loan to facilitate the purchase. I’m retired but have the cash flow to make payments. One thing about retirement is that you switch from saving to spending. My money is working for me and I prefer not to spend it down. The credit union wanted to see comps, so I emailed them a handful of listings of recently sold R2’s from Classic.com, most were in the mid-40’s, so they placed a value of $45,000 on the car when determining the loan amount. It was approved by the loan committee. In a few weeks I’ll have a car that I’d give a 7 or maybe an 8. I hope this helps you understand a different perspective. Merry Christmas, Bob

Merry Christmas. It’s interesting that you don’t show respect my opinion about your statement. Now you’ve resorted to telling me what I should do. I'm open to listening to how the statement has substance, originality or adds meaningfully to the conversation. Another cliché probably won’t suffice. Here’s another opinion to consider. Statements like “Your car is worth whatever the next guy is willing to pay” are just attempts to marginalize and dismiss a discussion. It’s great that you have it all figured out. Other folks might still want to discuss the subject. If you watch the entire film, animated or live action, you’ll see that the grinch doesn’t steal Christmas.

Yes, inane. It’s a pointless comment that adds nothing to the discussion. I suspect that your sharp enough to serve up more than platitudes.

What is the issue? Completely dead, just a click, cranking slowly…?

Your statement is true, however it is also rather inane. It’s similar to the phrase “It is what it is” which is known to drive Jerry Seinfeld mad. If there is a point to this thread it is that a value needs to be determined before a car is listed for sale. Few buyers would offer anything close to a fair price if the seller didn’t ask for something close to a fair price as a starting point. I’d imagine that most forum members would perform their own due diligence before buying or selling a classic car, in the same way that someone in the housing market would do some research. Houses typically sell close to their asking prices or appraised values. Past sales data helps determine the market. It isn’t just a shot in the dark. For the sake of this tread, I’m not interested in investing the time to compile the data necessary to answer the original question. In my opinion, the approach taken won’t yield meaningful results, however there will be some useful information posted here and there.

A great deal of what has been said are anecdotal stories that reflect individual circumstances. That won’t answer the original question. Some sales data and valuations from Classic.com and Hagerty has been provided. We can argue against or dismiss the data in the same way that we can disagree with an appraisal on a house. The reality is that the bank uses the appraisal to determine the loan amount, so that’s a large part of what determines home values. Same principle applies to vehicles. We need to use the available data to determine values rather than using the values owners believe their vehicles have. What I’ve learned is that some folks want others to do their work for them. And others, who most likely have an interest in the value of their car, pretend they don’t when they grow tired of a nonproductive discussion.

It shouldn’t be a news flash to anyone. It may be news to some that your Avanti isn’t my Avanti or the next guys Avanti. So without some knowledge and history of previous sales it would be next to impossible for a seller to ask a reasonable price or for a buyer to make a reasonable offer. There are numerous variables, one guys “nice” example might be another guys train wreck, but the information is useful. It isn’t likely that you’d put yours up for “Make an Offer” and sell at the first offer. If you do, I may want to take a look.

We know what happens when we assume. There will always be a “market”. The unanswerable question is, what will that market look like? To your original post, the answer is out there. It just takes some effort to discover. It doesn’t require an educated guess. I’ve put in all the effort I care to on the subject. Here it is. From Classic.com between 2022-2025, 28 R-2’s (1963-64) were sold for an average price of $45,900. The lowest price was $15K, the highest was $88K. Six to eight cars were sold each year. By year, the average selling price was: 2022 $38,500 2023 $57,600 (3 of 6 sales were over $70K) 2024 $42,150 2025 $45,375 This being your idea, perhaps you could build a spreadsheet to which other members could add data. In my opinion these endeavors are akin to picking fly droppings out of pepper, however some folks enjoy the process.

Details please.

A post on the other thread discussing the same topic indicates that there was some hacking involved.

Allegedly, the site was hacked and ransom exceeding the administrator’s salary by many multiples is being demanded. It is clearly a high value target.

Why then, are so many Avantis equipped with orange superchargers? The production data booklet shows a photo of a pre-production R2 engine with a black supercharger and a caption that reads “Production cars were fitted with orange superchargers from the factory.”