Rick Allen
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Posts posted by Rick Allen
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1 hour ago, A0136 said:
New forum member but long time Studebaker and Avanti owner. I put new pads on my 67 Avanti II a few months ago.
I used the ceramic pads from Moss. I only have 50 miles or so on them but they are working good.
Thanks, that's good to know that they fit and are working well so far,,,
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Nice ’63 R2 up for auction on bring-a-trailer, lots of pictures (and videos) and documentation but I was under the impression all R2 had 160 MPH speedometers, this one shows a 140 speedo; did any early R2 come from factory with a 140 mph gauge?,,,
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I'm thinking of doing a body off restoration myself and I'm curious how many bolts hold the body to the frame?,,,
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7 minutes ago, 64studeavanti said:
526956 is the casting number for all rods odd or even. There should be a stamped cylinder number, 1, 2, 3 etc on the rod and cap where they fasten together. As long as you install them in the correct cylinders and orientation, you should be good.
Yes, there is the 1-8 cylinder numbers on the rods; putting only casting number on parts is very confusing for someone like me, thanks for the clarification.
So any rod with that same casting # is correct for an R1/R2 engine?
What do the other numbers mean, if anything, date codes, foundry, etc. ?
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In the process of rebuilding my ’64 R2, have new pistons and am ready to put the connecting rods on.
The book calls for connecting rod #s 527114 for odd number cylinders and 527114 for even, my connecting rods numbers are 526956 for all 8 pistons and I’ wondering why the number is different than what the book calls for, I’m sure the engine is original and never apart!
Any feedback is appreciated!,,,
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In the process of rebuilding my R2 engine, I ordered all the parts except the camshaft so far. I was told by a respected Stude engine builder that the camshaft very rarely wears out and needs replacement, baring any catastrophic failure.
That being said, can anyone venture a guess as to what is an acceptable wear difference (in mm) from lobe to lobe on the camshaft?
I should add the engine/camshaft has 57,000 miles on it.
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10 hours ago, Randy Atkin said:
Here we are some 60 years after the debut of the Avanti and brake pads, pistons, cylinders, etc are still available. How long will we be able to buy Cobalt pads - 5 years, 10 years? They could go out of business tomorrow. Then what? Something to consider.
A google search indicated Moss has been in business since 1921 but Anything is possible!
For me, brake pads are not an issue, but could be for someone who's Avanit is a daily driver and puts on 15K miles a year of stop and go traffic, a set of new pads will probably last me forever but not for everybody.
As another member mentioned, buy 2 sets of pads, they are very reasonable, $24 for semi-metallic, $32 for ceramic, should last a long time.
Many went to the Turner system which uses the aftermarket conversion brackets to mount the calipers and uses a single piston floating style caliper where as the original Bendix/Dunlop system uses dual calipers for each wheel/pad as do the new Cobalt calipers, which promotes more even wear and braking power it is said.
All in all, any upgrade to the original system is a plus, there will always be a down side to everything!
As always, I appreciate and respect anyone one's comments!
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The shop I use is in Hazleton, Pa., not too many around any more like in the days when these cars were new.
The shop bored my engine to .030, the heads were already done when I bought the car in February but not installed, I ordered all the engine parts myself and I will assemble it when it comes back from the machine shop, the only other thing I will have the shop do is install the new cam bearings,,,,,,
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I started a new topic to update my evaluation of the Cobalt calipers for those who are interested!
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Now that I received the correct brake pads, I can show how things fit compared to the original Bendix calipers.
1st, the backing plate of the new Moss/Cobalt pads is much heavier/thicker than on the original pads, which is what Cobalt indicated is needed for their piston design.
2nd, the new pads are about 3+ mm shorter than the original pads which leaves a greater gap between the top of the pad and the silver metal “retainer” that you remove to replace the pads when needed.
3rd, the roll pins which are installed on the Cobalt calipers, which I originally thought needed to be removed for clearance on the mounting brackets, are there to keep the pad from slipping down in the bracket. That original thin plate needs to be removed as it would interfere with the new piston design of the Cobalt and the roll pins replace it.
I don’t know if that extra gap at the top of the pad would be a problem but I could either slot the silver retainer to move it down, slot the hole in the bracket and that would move it down, or glue an appropriate size piece of metal or other suitable material on top of the pad, and that would take up the gap. Also, it’s possible nothing at all would need to be done since when the piston (s) move out they will hold the pad from moving (I would think).
It would be some time before I can evaluate the braking power of the new calipers/pads, as my car is completely apart and the engine is in the machine shop.
Initially, for the price of $270 for 4 newly designed calipers, it seems a good alternative, for me at least, especially because I’d like to keep things as original as possible.
The car stopped fine when Stude made it new in ’62 so no reason it won’t now, I’m not a crazy driver and only drive my classic cars occasionally in the better months of the year here in Pennsylvania!
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18 minutes ago, Nelson said:
The Stude pads are retained by a center pin on the piston which the Cobalts don’t have. I Imagine they will be fine as is. I think the center pin on the Stude acted to retract the pad with the piston. Most disc brakes just rely on rotor runout to do the same job…. I think?
Sorry, I assumed you were referring to retaining the pads in the carrier/mounting bracket once assembled, not the piston, so yes it would work like most modern disc brake systems, being the pad is free floating against the piston where as the Stude the pad was attached to the piston,,,thanks
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43 minutes ago, Nelson said:
In looking at the photos of the parts, what retains the pad? Maybe those roll pins are there to keep the pads from going down too far during installation?
As my previous comments mentioned, I don't have the correct pads yet but my assumption is the pads would stay in place the same as the original Dunlop pads would, and as far as the pins, they are something that may fit into the Jag caliper brackets but not the Avanti ones and should/will be removed, they are only "pressed in" light duty roll pins, other wise the Cobalt caliper is the same,,,
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1 hour ago, Nelson said:
Is the pad thickness the same on these versus stock or is it reduced to account for the thicker backing plate?
Also, I assume these will wear down to metal against metal where as the stock unit has a built in positive stop?
Looking closely at the Cobalt vs. the original caliper, it seems the Cobalt piston retracts (or is shorter or less deep) than the original piston so it would allow for a thicker pad than the original Bendix, so it would accommodate the thicker backing plate and provide the same, if not more, pad thickness (wear).
As far as, metal to metal wear, in my experience classic cars are not driven hard or many miles and in my case at least, I won't worry what might happen in 100 years; thanks for your observations and comments!,,,
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27 minutes ago, Zedman said:
Hi Rick- The pistons on your Cobalt cyls are hollow, whereas original Pistons are flat, wide and solid. Stock pads are quite small. Are these pistons going to properly bear on the small 'Bendix' pads?
It's not a problem, if you go back and scan some of the previous comments, it's mentioned Cobalt calipers come with special pads to accommodate the different style piston so you don't use the original Bendix pads at all, unfortunately in my case, Moss motors sent me the wrong pads which will delay me a week until I received the correct pads,,,
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6 hours ago, Dwight FitzSimons said:Moss's website shows the following pads, which look right for a Studebaker (may not be right, but look right).
--Dwight
Yes they are the correct pads which should have come with the calipers, they can be bought in either ceramic or semi-metallic, their website does not state which ones are included with the calipers I purchased, semi-metallic are less expensive so I assume that's what they would have sent with the package,,, thanks
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7 hours ago, brad said:
Did you not read where the pads have to be special and NOT the Bendix Type? Stock pads will NOT work with these pistons. You need the thicker backing plates of the new pads.
It is not an issue of needing special pads and me not knowing that, the correct pads are supposed to be included with the calipers and they were not, the pads they sent me (by the number) are for an Austin Healey.
Again, they send the wrong pads, see Dwight's post in which he shows the correct pads which I had also located on their website, I will have to call them on Monday (tomorrow) and have them resend!
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Received the new "on sale" $269.99 Cobalt calipers last night from Moss Auto, they look good, are heavy, of course made in China. They seem to be a correct fit replacement for the original Avanti caliper set-up, except for the 2 pins, which I believe to be for alignment on the Jag brackets, but of course would need to be removed to mount on the Avanti brackets.
It seems they can be removed easily as they are a type of "roll" pin and probably only press fitted. One issue I have is that they went me the wrong brake pads, completely different from what would be needed for the Avanti set-up, so I'll need to call them on Monday to get the correct ones sent. When I do, I can then determine if both the calipers and the pads are a correct replacement fit for my '64 R2; this will probably be into later next week by the time I get the new pads.; stay tuned!,,,
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On 6/7/2023 at 7:17 PM, Fourward said:
Good luck, Rick!!! Wish I was bold enough to do that, let us know!
I received them last evening, I am starting a new post on them so look for it later this evening,,,
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2 hours ago, Fourward said:
Well, to end the thing then, Zedman, that was solid advice, I can't get the one caliper apart, the bolts are so rusted, I would have to pay my mechanic to disassemble one of them, so by the time I got done paying him, and getting the 4 x $110 pistons from SI, then brake shoes, I'd be bumping up against the cost of "NEW" calipers from Bob Ziff. $595. That bumps me into Turner Brake territory which gets me the rotors too, I gotta think my rotors are shot on this car, everything else was. So, I just ordered the Turner Brakes from Bob. ( I'm not that handy, the Jaguar parts look inviting but I KNOW I'm going to have to modify something.)
I ordered the $269.99 Colbalt calipers from Moss today, probably get them Monday if not sooner, I'll report back when I do and have a chance to evaluate them; I'm keeping my fingers crossed, stay tuned!
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44 minutes ago, Rick Allen said:
I'm close to buying them but I'd 1st like to know if there is some unreasonable "restocking" charge like 20% or so if I decided to return them?,,,
As a follow up, I called Moss and they answered within 1 minute, I pressed #1 for "quick sales/order" and I guess you get right in as they are expecting you to order, which I did not, but asked about return policy instead.
I was told returns of un-used parts is 6 months for a refund, and/or another 6 months beyond that for store credit, sound incredible but that's what I was told; also, no restocking fee either!,,,
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yes, the bold pattern has a specific pattern, thanks to all who replied,,,
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48 minutes ago, Fourward said:
Moss told me that as long as there was no brake fluid in the parts, or anything to prevent them from being sold again, that they would be happy to take them back.
I'm close to buying them but I'd 1st like to know if there is some unreasonable "restocking" charge like 20% or so if I decided to return them?,,,
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20 minutes ago, 64studeavanti said:
The original Dunlop caliper pistons (and the ones licensed such as Bendix, Sumitomo, etc) were SAE. It would make no sense if these were metric.
FWIW, before I discovered these, I was able to purchase Sumitomo from Parts Geek. They are SAE and fit perfectly.
Unfortunately, Parts Geek and others that sell the Sumitomo are out of stock.
When I raised the question about metric or SAE, I was referring to the bolts that mount the caliper brackets, not anything related to the brake lines or rubber hoses; the hoses pictured (if they are what you get in the master kit) have male threaded ends on both ends, the original Avanti hoses have female threaded ends as I'm sure we all know. My point was no use paying for things that won't work or can't use, seems the basic kit for $270 would be best for me,,,
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15 hours ago, Dwight FitzSimons said:
Does anyone know whether these would result in more braking power on a Studebaker (i.e., a reduction in required line pressure required to stop)? I have about lost faith in Studebaker's disc brakes due to the very high line pressure required to stop the car. If one loses his booster, or the engine quits, then it is almost impossible to stop a disc-brake-equipped Studebaker, even on level ground. This is the Achilles heel of the Bendix/Dunlop disc brakes, and I'm too young to die!
I would argue that the Moss cylinders are a superior, modern design, and, as Moss states, more reliable and long lived. At least they would be the most cost effective way to rebuild one's Bendix/Dunlop disc brakes. Moss's website has them on sale for $270 + shipping for the complete set for the front of the car.
One could even make them look sort of like the originals by grinding the name off the Moss cylinders and gluing the discs that someone has reproduced (like those on earlier '63 Avantis).
It would appear that the pins on the cylinders would have to be removed for installation on a Studebaker. That would be easy to do.
--Dwight
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Seems like a low-cost alternative; what you have pictured is a master kit which sells for 359.00 on their website, so I'm wondering since this is sold as Jag parts, is the hardware metric or American, as used by Studebaker in '62/'63 and if the brake hoses are the ones pictured then they don't seem to be a correct replacement for Avanti, I found it impossible to get anyone on the phone at Moss to ask these questions,,,
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Steering Wheel Repair
in 1963-64 Avanti
Posted
My steering wheel has developed some play at both ends where the two metals spokes meet the wheel, and I see some small stress cracks in plastic where the metal spokes
attach.
I need to repair this before it gets worse, luckily the steering wheel itself has no other cracks or breaks, appreciate any suggestions on how to make this repair,,,