[R3 Sales!!]

On 1/15/2022 at 7:23 PM, mfg said:

WOW!...that's a great photo of your bona-fide Avanti R3 engine Dwight....Thank you for posting!....There looks like there's considerable clearance between the fan blade tips and shroud....Could that be a 14" Hi-Po Avanti fan?

The fan blade measures the same as my R2 Avanti (7" from capscrew to tip of blade), so it isn't a 14" fan. There's much more gap at the top between the fan and the shroud, though.

--Dwight

[R3 Sales!!]

4 hours ago, mfg said:

I wouldn't doubt it,  although the few R3 engines that sat unused in South Bend were mostly shipped back to Paxton in California,.....It was not unusual for the Granatellis to display a NOVI or two at STP's main office in Des Plaines......Why not an Avanti R3 engine for a time... before selling it off?

(Dwight...would you tell us a little more about B69....is it presently installed in an Avanti/Studebaker?)

B69 is installed in Avanti R5407 (originally an R1 4-spd car, gray with Claret interior).

--Dwight

 

[R3 Sales!!]

Not to throw in a wild card, but my R3 engine (B69) was originally shipped from STP in Des Plaines, IL (going from memory).

--Dwight

[Avanti Gauge!]

Looks like the car is speedometer limited to 140 MPH.

--Dwight

[Dash Pads?]

Dan Booth of Nostalgic Motors in Wixom, MI makes them.  They appear to be very high quailty, but are expensive ($2000).

--Dwight

[Front Coil Springs]

3 hours ago, Leo B said:

Hi. I found Moog variable springs for 1963 from Avantiparts. I understand that "variable" is same as progressive spring and works soft > tight. I dont know the height.

https://avantiparts.biz/coil-springs-h-d-front-avanti-63-to-85-526134/

Standard Avanti -63 springs are 526135 and the free height is 14 5/8 (by SI). My old ones are 526135*MC and maybe old which makes them about 1/2" shorter.

Do you have experience how Moog ones work? Do they change stance/rake comparing standard ones?

It looks like these are the Moog CC655 springs, originally for the back end of GM cars from the 1980s or '90s.  For a while there was quite a bit of discussion on the SDC Forum on these.  Reports on them seemed to be all positive.  One comment was that they might raise the front end of a Studebaker (depending on the engine).  There is/was a lighter duty version of these springs, but I can't recall the number of those.

--Dwight

[Quick steering arms]

I guess everyone knows this, but I'll point it out anyway.  You have to re-align your front suspension after installing the quick steering arms.

--Dwight

[Avanti R2 1963 "Rake Stance"]

6 hours ago, studegary said:

Dwight - I believe that the incorrect tire size and profile exasperates the problem/appearance.

True enough; that's a result of my obsession with handling.  Lowering the car might help with the appearance of the tires in the wheel openings.  Maybe 1" in back and 2" in front.

Along that line I wish that the Halibrand rims were reproduced in 16" or 17".

--Dwight

[Quick steering arms]

I have them on one of my '64 Avantis and agree fully with gunslinger.  One thing I might add is that one of the main contributors on the SDC Forum has bent a pair of the original arms so their length is about halfway between the stock and the quick arms.  That seems to me to be the best of both worlds.  I don't recall who the gentleman was who did that but I do remember that he is one of the more astute members technically.  An inquiry on the SDC Forum, or here, might turn up something.

--Dwight

[Avanti R2 1963 "Rake Stance"]

Below is my '64 Avanti, which, IMHO, sits a bit too high.

--Dwight

 

[Avanti R2 1963 "Rake Stance"]

I think there are two objectives to setting the stance of a '64-4 Avanti: (1) A slight-moderate rake, and (2) No big gap between the front wheel opening and the tire (oops, tyre).  The turquoise Avanti and the gray Avanti above left are perfect to me.  My '64 Avanti has a sllght rake, but sits up too high because of new springs front & rear (installed by previous owner)

Correcting the stance of an Avanti II is more difficult.  At least, the front should be lowered on most if not all of them to effect at lease a little rake.

--Dwight

[Avanti R2 1963 "Rake Stance"]

10 hours ago, studegary said:

My understanding is that the market that they were aiming for preferred the body to be level, so they made it that way.  Besides unshimming, you need to reopen the wheel wells.

Only the front wheel openings, though.  George Dimitsas used to make front wheel opening "lips" to open up the front wheel openings (on Avanti IIs).  My opinion is the same as George, that Avanti Motors needed to close up the openings somewhat, but not nearly as much as they did.  IMO the Studebaker Avanti front wheel openings are too large.  On the other hand some Avanti IIs actually sit higher in the front than in the back.  Those cars look awful that way.

--Dwight

[Inside Rear view mirror. Prototype?]

1 hour ago, Footer said:

At 6’ 5” I sit tall in most cars unless I can power the seat to a low position. For me, most rear view mirrors obscure my view of the road. The mirror in the low position only blocks out my view of the hood, not the road. Not sure what the original intent of the low mounted mirror was, but it did work for some of us!  Mike

And, Studebaker's president was 6' 4"!  He monkeyed around with what should have been a designer's decision in requiring the sun visors to be tiny, so maybe he interfered with the mirror design also.

--Dwight

[Frugal Avanti!]

True, because that would enrichen the fuel mixture?

--Dwight

[Hi Output Avanti!]

15 hours ago, mfg said:

A part of the Studebaker Avanti optional R3 engine package was a 14" high output fan.....True?

My reasoning for saying false is based on the wording of your question: "optional R3 engine package."  I believe that the 14" fan wasn't a part of the normal R3 package, but was an option.

--Dwight

[Interior Vinyl?]

Hi, Leo B,

At a quick look the only thing I can find incorrect is that the Claret Red vinyl wasn't available on 1963 Avantis. The transition from 1963 to 1964 Avantis was gradual and complicated.  Fred Fox's article covers it well.  He states that the Claret Red vinyl was introduced in late August 1963.  This was after the start of 1964 Avanti production.

--Dwight

[uh oh, sat/pepper vs solid at 1064]

28 minutes ago, Leo B said:

OK. Thanks. Do you mean for all Exterior color which had Velvet Black 813 interior? All 1963 had.

Yes, according to the 1963 Avanti Color & Upholstery Selector book a Fawn & Black interior was available with any color exterior.  So, I assume the same rules would apply to the late-1963 813BKV interior option.

--Dwight

[uh oh, sat/pepper vs solid at 1064]

1 hour ago, Leo B said:

Hi, Do you mean that Gold an Red which had Fawn/Elk interior had not Black carpet in early models? Like the selector shows. Those had only Fawn/Black carpet?
 

Hi,

Avanti Gold & Red paint colors were both available with a Fawn & Elk interior.  The carpet in either a gold or red car (with Fawn & Elk int.) would have been solid black.

Conversely, the Fawn & Elk interior could have been ordered with a black, white, gold, or red exterior.  With the black or white exterior (and Fawn & Elk int.) the carpets would have been salt & pepper.
 
At least, that's how I read the 1963 Avanti Color & Uph Selector book.  The combinations (or permutations) were complex, with 6 exterior colors, 5 interior colors, and 5 carpet colors.  And, one can't exclude the possibility of an "unauthorized" combination being ordered by a dealer for an eccentric customer.

The complex combinations of these exterior colors, uph colors, & carpet colors may have been one reason Studebaker simplified the '64s.

--Dwight

[Interior Vinyl?]

3 hours ago, Leo B said:

Hi Dwight. Thank you 😊
When Orange 8. was released and when discontinued? Was it only early color to choose?
I wonder this cause my photos dont show that color. My photos have to be from autumn 1963 when both reds; Claret Red and Metallic Red where available same time.
"Knowledge requires curiosity"

Orange interiors were available on '63 Avantis from the beginning of production.  In fact, the first two Avantis (63R1001 & 63R1002) had orange interiors.  I have never heard or read anything about the orange color interior being dropped before the end of '63 Avanti production, but it could be.  Orange interiors weren't available on '64 Avantis.  What you have (pictured) is a package of "update pages" for the 1964 Avanti Color & Upholstery Selector book.  These were sent to dealers about August 1963 for inserting into the Avanti Color & Uph book for the 1964 Avantis.

I read somewhere that the Avanti Claret interior was supposed to replace the Metallic Red interior for the '64 model year, but some '64s were built with red interiors anyway.  I used to own a square headlight '64 Avanti with the Metallic Red interior, so I know this for a fact.  I currently own a '64 Avanti (R5407) with the Claret interior.

--Dwight

[uh oh, sat/pepper vs solid at 1064]

1 hour ago, mfg said:

I agree.....with one exception!..........I understand you to say solid black carpets were used with combo #2, (Fawn & Elk).......Perhaps on many '63 Avantis solid black carpeting was used with the Fawn & Elk interior, however, my own '63 Avanti, 63R1379, came with salt & pepper (tan & black) carpeting...and yes, it has a Fawn & Elk interior.

 I replaced the carpeting in this Avanti several years ago (with all black!), but kept some pieces of its original salt & pepper carpet.....Ed

Your car isn't an exception to what I stated (But, the last sentence of my second paragraph (above) should be striken (reason: misleading.).  According to the Avanti Color & Uph Selector book the Fawn & Black "salt & pepper"carpets could have come with either the Fawn & Elk or Fawn & Black upholstery.  And, the Fawn & Elk interior is the only interior color that could have come with black carpets.  Further, the only exterior colors available with BOTH Fawn & Elk uph. AND Fawn & Black carpets were Avanti Black and Avanti White.  

Related to this, I fixed up a '63 Avanti years ago.  It was built Avanti Gold with Fawn & Elk interior.  Predictably, there was still some of its original black carpet high up in the firewall area.

One takeaway is that a Fawn & Elk interior could have come with EITHER Fawn & Black carpets or all-black carpets (depending on the exterior color).

Another takeaway is that ONLY the Fawn & Elk interior could have come with black carpets.  ALL other interior upholstery colors came with salt & pepper carpets.

So, we can conclude that your Avanti # 63R1379's exterior must have been either Avanti Black or Avanti White.  (Unless, of course, someone ordered the car with an out-of-normal combination.)

--Dwight

[uh oh, sat/pepper vs solid at 1064]

On 10/21/2008 at 8:16 AM, tsterkel said:

first a quote

"If your VIN is lower than 4892 it's a salt and pepper and after is all black.

ErnieR"

Geek is 1064 R2 Manual. I have looked at the carpets many times. They "look" original, and are all black.

1. Did I make a bad assumption?

2. what would be the "salt" color, given the interior is Elk/Fawn, exterior Metallic Maroon.

thanks!

Your car (63R1064) is correct.  An Avanti Red '63 with Fawn & Elk interior would have come with black carpets.

As to the statement: "If your VIN is lower than 4892 it's a salt and pepper and after is all black," that statement isn't true.

--Dwight

[uh oh, sat/pepper vs solid at 1064]

The term "Salt & pepper" just means that the carpets in some '63 Avantis are two tone.  In other words, a black background & either orange, fawn, turquoise, or red "salted" in.

Not all '63 Avantis had salt & pepper carpets.  Some color combinations used solid black carpets.  Black carpets were used with upholstery combination #2 (Fawn & Elk) ONLY.  These cars were available ONLY with an exterior color of either gold or red.  (source: 1963 Avanti Color & Upholstery Selector book)

If you think about the above color combinations (in & out) they will make sense (at least most of them).

All '64 Avantis had black carpets (possible exceptions: early round headlight '64 Avantis)

--Dwight

[Interior Vinyl?]

A little addition to Leo B's info above:

Orange interiors (upholstery combination #8) were available on 1963 Avantis with gray, black, white, or gold exterior colors. (source: 1963 Avanti Color & Upholstery Selector)

--Dwight

[Avanti R3 Power!]

I will guess 410 HP.

--Dwight

[Avanti..JTSH!]

The "JTS" designates a supercharged (R2) engine installed in a Hawk or a Lark-type car.  For the 1964 model year the "H" indicates the month the engine was assembled, August (the eighth month).  (Note that a '63 Lark or Hawk R2 engine would also have a JTS prefix, but just numbers following that.)

 

--Dwight