Avanti Authenticity

[mfg]

I've never owned a Studebaker Avanti that one might consider completely 'stock'. I enjoy personalizing my cars...and DRIVING them!!

However, I do think it's important to UNDERSTAND what's factory 'stock' or 'original' to a car, and what isn't.

Over on the SDC forum, a discussion came up as to whether or not modern urethane paints would pass as authentic in national Studebaker Avanti concours judging?

The answer to that, in my opinion, is 'NO WAY'!!

As durable and good looking as the new urethanes are, Studebaker Avantis left the factory in acrylic lacquer, which has an entirely different look and 'feel' than the modern 'wet look' urethane automotive paints.

As was pointed out in the "1 of 9" thread on the SDC forum, in NCRS judging, major authenticity points are subtracted from '63-'64 Corvettes if their owners choose to paint these cars in basecoat/clearcoat urethane as apposed to the acrylic lacquer originally applied to them at the factory!

Is a '63 Studebaker Avanti a LESSER car than a '63 Chevrolet Corvette?...I don't think so!

In my opinion, for a street driver/local car show Avanti, basecoat/clearcoat urethane paint is the best way to go,..... but for a seldom driven, 100% authentic, 'high end' Studebaker Avanti show car, there's really no other correct choice but to use acrylic lacquer!

[dynolou2]

Discussions at the National , Al Basile said that a two stage paint job in the minus 2 points range. A good painter can dull down the finish, as from the factory they weren't that glossy. An origional survivor in good shape would be a plus 2, a survivor but with paint issues would be a plus 1 . Color change or not stock color minus 2 . Lou Cote

[mfg]

I haven't seen the Avanti Authenticity manual yet...I was wondering if there was any mention of this 'Avanti Turquoise' color question?

[dynolou2]

If you haven't seen one, over 300 have been sold, several of the venders also have copys. There have been ads in Avanti Magazine,this months Turning wheels even has an ad offering them for sale ..... so it's time to step up. Lou Cote

[mfg]

If you haven't seen one, over 300 have been sold, several of the venders also have copys. There have been ads in Avanti Magazine,this months Turning wheels even has an ad offering them for sale ..... so it's time to step up. Lou Cote

And I will Lou, In the meantime though, I'd like to know if the new manual actually indicates that Studebaker offered TWO 'Avanti Turquoise' exterior colors? (one for '63 and one for '64)

If the manual indeed does indicate there were two colors offered, then it should be corrected.

That's the question I'd appreciate answered Lou....Thanks!

[mfg]

And I will Lou, In the meantime though, I'd like to know if the new manual actually indicates that Studebaker offered TWO 'Avanti Turquoise' exterior colors? (one for '63 and one for '64)

If the manual indeed does indicate there were two colors offered, then it should be corrected.

That's the question I'd appreciate answered Lou....Thanks!

Awaiting reply to above question.

[dynolou2]

I will ask Al Basile to answer this question. However a quick look at the Avanti manual page E 186 shows a R-M automotive colors chart for 1964 Studebaker -- 1963 - 64 Avanti. Under P - 6332 Avanti TURQUOISE IRID. , *63S33 shown as Used on 1963-64 Avanti models only. Sorry I didn't answer earlier but I have been on vacation all of this week without my laptop. Lou Cote

[mfg]

No problem Lou, and thanks very much for your response.....It seems to confirm that there was only ONE 'Avanti Turquoise' color offered by Studebaker for the '63-'64 model years.....which is what I suspected!

Hope you enjoyed your vacation!!

[brad]

I can show you a varience book of color chips for a Honda that has 14 different colors from the exact same color code. It means nothing that the same color code is on a car, if the colors are two distinctly different shades.

[mfg]

I can show you a varience book of color chips for a Honda that has 14 different colors from the exact same color code. It means nothing that the same color code is on a car, if the colors are two distinctly different shades.

As I explained to you before Brad, 'color variances' were absolutely NOT AVAILABLE in '63-'64!

Yes, almost all 'modern car' exterior colors now have variances available to the painter.....NOT SO in '63-'64!

Hence, there was indeed ONLY ONE 'Avanti Turquoise' color offered by Studebaker for the '63-'64 Avanti models......Ed

[brad]

Do you think paint just magically appears at the parts counter? It is mixed from a formula by humans, and ALWAYS HAS. Therefore human error occurs. When I mix paint, it has to be measured on a scale that is accurate to 1/10 of a gram. Do you think they had scales that accurate in 1963? Every painter learns how to blend to match a panel adjacent to the one being repaired.

Getting back to the point of authenticity.....It is up to the restorer to match exactly what the car came painted from the factory with, even if it doesn't coincide with a given formula.

My point is that when the paint manufacturers were switched, the toners of that supplier were used. The deep base blue of one supplier can be entirely different from another manufacturers ....same formula, same weights poured, different colors, and different strengths of toners. that is where the mistake was made, and never corrected. A new formula should have been given, or the paint code number changed.

It wasn't. I know this to be true, now you do too.

Edited October 24, 2016 by brad

[mfg]

Brad my friend, once again you are not only missing the point , but you also apparently missed my spiel on the Dupont--Ditzler paint color differences concerning this 'Avanti Turquoise'.

I'm not going to rehash all of that here....I believe that anyone can still find it for review on the SDC Forum.

However, this is the 'bottom line'......Studebaker only offered, and only INTENDED to offer, ONE ( that's 1..UNO in espanol) 'AVANTI TURQUOISE' color for the '63-'64 model years!

[brad]

Ok, Ed, It didn't understand your point of this topic. Now I do, and agree with you 100%.

[Wasjunk]

To add to the conversation I have been in the paint business since the mid 70s. Until the mid 80s most paint when purchased from any company you tried to get a "factory pack" that was mixed from the mfg, with the idea of a better match, not always the case. Also the paint store did the mixing unlike today most larger shops have there own mixing bank and scales. Add to that and every person sees colors different I think its hard to say who is correct and who is wrong.

[Wasjunk]

To add to the conversation I have been in the paint business since the mid 70s. Until the mid 80s most paint when purchased from any company you tried to get a "factory pack" that was mixed from the mfg, with the idea of a better match, not always the case. Also the paint store did the mixing unlike today most larger shops have there own mixing bank and scales. Add to that and every person sees colors different I think its hard to say who is correct and who is wrong.

[mfg]

To add to the conversation I have been in the paint business since the mid 70s. Until the mid 80s most paint when purchased from any company you tried to get a "factory pack" that was mixed from the mfg, with the idea of a better match, not always the case. Also the paint store did the mixing unlike today most larger shops have there own mixing bank and scales. Add to that and every person sees colors different I think its hard to say who is correct and who is wrong.

That's a great description of 'how it was' in the collision repair industry in the '70's & the '80's!!...I surely remember that a 'factory packaged paint' was the 'way to go'!!

Again though, all I'm saying here is that Studebaker only offered ONE 'Avanti Turquoise' exterior color, spanning the '63-'64 model years.

[mfg]

Once again I'd like to be clear that although Studebaker originally used acrylic lacquer paint on all of their Avantis, in today's world basecoat/clearcoat is definitely a superior product..... especially so if your Avanti is to be driven over the road at all!

Brad Bez, in my opinion, did an OUTSTANDING JOB applying the gorgeous 'Avanti Turquoise' color, in basecoat/clearcoat, to the first 'production' R3 Studebaker Avanti!