Skip Lackie
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Posts posted by Skip Lackie
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There has been some talk on some other boards about the new Chinese-made 1157 bulbs being much hotter and melting some plastic tail lamp lenses. The solutions seem to be to find some older, USA-made 1157 bulbs, or convert to LED bulbs. Two problems with the LEDs: (1) they project almost all of their light rearward and none to the sides (not that serious a problem in Avantis), and (2) they don't draw enough amps to activate the original signal flasher.
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The G120368 is a standard, grade 5, cadmium-plated, 3/8 x 24 fine thread nut that is available at any auto parts store. The G138--- series washers are standard, external-tooth, star washers. I assume G138538 is 3/8" size, though I don't have any. The 41X series of washers are plain body/fender washers, each of which has a unique diameter and hole size. I have a lot of them, but not the 41X195, so can't tell you what size it should be. I have a bunch of Stude spring washers, but none in the 1463X series. I can probably send you one that will fit a 3/8" bolt, but cannot guarantee that it will look like a 1463X36.
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I dunno whether this will help you or not, but about 30 years ago, Newman & Altman (or maybe Avanti Parts Corp – can’t remember) still had some leftover sealed beam units with Studebaker part numbers them on the shelf. They were GE 7” lamps. That doesn’t mean that GEs were used originally, but it does mean that that was the brand that Stude was stocking as replacements in 1964.
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As John Poulos has often said, “There’s nothing more expensive than a cheap Avanti.”
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Another option if you don’t want to go high-end. “Universal” aftermarket AM/FM/cassette radios were commonly available in the 70s to replace the AM-only units still in use in a lot of cars. Many of these had adjustable control shafts so they could be installed in a lot of different cars. They also had a fairly small nose piece, but came with a mask that would cover any gap between the nose piece and the original cover plate. These radios come up NORS on ebay all the time, and are relatively inexpensive, since they don’t include all the modern bells and whistles. That said, some are not described well enough to be sure that you are getting a radio that will fit the Stude dash. The key issue is adjustable shafts. I have a Sanyo in my 74 Avanti II, and it fits perfectly and works well. I would describe it as a medium-quality radio. Kenwood also made some better ones that also fit the Stude dashboard perfectly.
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Great show Don. Really appreciate the effort you guys put in.
Thanks for the pix Lew. I endorse including the names and serial numbers. Makes the photos a lot more informative.
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The December 1963 edition of the Avanti parts manual would be worth buying. They are available in reprint and CD, and originals come up on ebay all the time. Avanti Motors continued to change the Avanti every year after 1964, but there is still plenty of Stude content in your 83's body and running gear. The engine and transmission, of course, are covered well by an 83 Chevy chassis manual. Unfortunately for all of us, Avanti Motors sourced many other things like switches, steering columns, and many other systems from a variety of sources -- and their origin is sometimes hard to determine. Wiring harnesses were made by hand by a lady with a pattern marked out on a piece of plywood, and no two seem to be exactly the same. As noted above, Nostalgic Motors is the closest thing we have to a factory warehouse. They bought most of the surplus Avanti parts, and are probably the only place who will be able to tell you how your car was built and with what it was equipped. Stude Intl owns the Stude parts inventory and is the best place to go on items you know are still original Avanti items.
Good luck with your car.
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Ken
I thought R2 heads were easy to find.
I believe they were a low compression head used on other studes such as trucks .
I'm no engine builder but with today's fuel I would have thought lowering the compression with r2 heads and dished pistons might be the way to go.
pb
Are you sure about that part number? Can’t find it in any of my car or truck parts books. If it’s a good number, then it might be a late supercession of some earlier numbers. These replacement numbers often didn’t make it into parts books.
63r2: Didn't mean to copy your message into this. Response intended for Ken.
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I can confirm that a clogged or malfunctioning carbon cannister can cause quite a stink inside the cabin. Before you spend the money on a new cannister, check to make sure that the hoses to/from it don't have any leaks. The cannisters themselves can be expensive, but should be available, maybe even from GM. Since it's emissions equipment, parts have to be available for a long time. Make sure you match it with one designed for your engine displacement. It's possible that your new engine, carb, and fuel pump exceeded the capacity of your old cannister, which might have been designed for a 2-bbl carb,
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I know he has huge stacks of "Turning Wheels" but I never have seen the AOAI magazines. He had 3 '53 Champions that he let rust into waste. He had owned them since I was born and they all were in working condition. Parked them outside at my grandparent's land and by the time I got old enough to ask about them, they were falling apart. A few years later he went and bought the Avanti.
Where do I find all of these manuals? What are they exactly called? Might run across them somewhere on the internet/eBay.
Reprints and CDs of the shop and parts manuals are available from several parts vendors:
http://www.studebakervendors.com/
Used ones and reprints come up on ebay all the time. The bodies, windows, suspension, etc of the early Avanti IIs are identical to the Studebaker Avantis, so the Studebaker manuals can be used. For engine issues, the appropriate year Chevy shop manual should be used. As Gunslinger said, Avanti Motor Co sourced things like side running lights and locking steering columns that were adopted after 1963 from a variety of suppliers, and it sometimes is difficult to identify where they came from. Nostalgic Motors in Michigan can sometimes provide either info or the parts themselves. They bought the old Avanti Motors supply depot.
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Yes, the 400s can have the problems mentioned. I have gotten lucky on my first '74 and '76. They never ran hot even the '74 with the A/C on going to the 40th Avanti anniversary in Palm Springs back in '01. I rebuilt the '76 400 after my ex-girlfriend (stress on EX!) practically blew it up. The block was clean and rebuilt fine.
All three of my Avanti IIs with the 400s had the Rochester 4 bbl carbs and two had the Avanti factory carb spec sheets to go with them factory paperwork. I am sure they came with the 4 bbl carbs when new.
Yup, me too. My 74 came with a 400 and a 4-bbl Rochester. Never had any overheating problems – in fact, it’s the only “Studebaker” I’ve ever owned that didn’t overheat.
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You didn’t say whether you suspected the original Chevy engine was worn out, or whether you were looking for more performance. In either of those cases, the advice above about crate engines is probably the way to go. But if the existing engine is in good shape, there may be no reason to replace it. Chevy engines carry a model/displacement/horsepower/date code on the front of the block, right in front of the right-hand head. It’s probably a standard Malibu or Caprice 350, but one never knows. Rumors persist that a few high-performance Corvette engines were installed on special order (but I’ve never seen one).
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One more thought learned from sad experience. As I said, in the 70s, fog/driving lights were usually on a separate circuit, the only requirement being that they also had to turn on your tail/running lights. Later, the Feds started requiring that "fog" lights could only be activated when the low beam headlights were on, and "driving" lights only when the high beams were on. I'm sure the Feds exempted vehicles built before the effective date of the new regs, but the bozos at my local inspection station can only remember one rule at a time. So they flunked my 78 El Camino because its driving lights were wired in accordance with the 1978-era regs and not the current regs. If your Avanti is subject to safety inspection, just be aware.
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My 74 came with Lucas driving lights. The wiring for them comes off a little wad of wires under the battery on the LF fender. The "connector", such as it is, is just one of those crimp-on connectors that is sold by the bag full at old car flea markets. So you may not find a pig tail with two empty connectors. My 74 is wired in accordance with standard practice in the 70s: turning on the fog lights also turns on the tail and parking lights. The headlight circuit does not need to be activated. Nowadays, aux lights are normally wired as stated by Gunslinger.
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What max amp rating alternator came on the 63 Avanti? Probably the same came on all Avanti II's post-1975, so info from one of those would be of use also. My 83 has had a bunch of electrical add-ons and the alternator on it can't quite keep up with the demand.
I've moved the voltmeter + feed to the radio/cruise control fuse which is a switched feed, so it's not the old clock circuit which Avanti Corp used to feed the voltemeter that's slowly draining my battery.
YY
Your question referred to a 63 Avanti. As I recall, the original Avantis were equipped with 40 amp alternators. But then you refer to an 83 Avanti. By 83, Avantis were equipped with Delcos that probably put out around 100 amps. I don't have specific data for 83.
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A few Avanti IIs were built each year with 4-speed through the 1974 model year. I have a 74 with a T-10, which is either the last or next-to-last one built. EPA regs that became effective on 1 January 1975 required car manufacturers to provide the gov't with examples of each available engine/trans combination for emissions testing. Given that Avanti Motors was only selling a few cars with standard transmissions each year, the company decided to only offer automatics effective with the 1975 model year. The Federal regs were changed later that decade to allow small manufacturers to piggy-back on the engine builder's emissions tests, and Steve Blake built a few cars with 5-speeds in the 1980s.
I have no personal experience with converting a car from automatic to stick, but it can't be that difficult. Avanti Motors used the standard Chevy clutch linkage, with a Z-shaped cross shaft and a ball stud attached to the engine block. There probably are only a couple of Avanti II-unique parts, and they might even be available from Nostalgic Motors.
In the 15-odd years I've owned my 74, I've seen four or five other Avanti IIs with stick come up for sale. I think a higher percentage of early models came with stick -- by the 70s, the car was marketed more as a luxury cruiser than sports car.
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To expand to what Gunslinger said, you need to approach it the way you would approach repairs to any car. That is, have the car checked over thoroughly so you can determine how much it's really gonna cost to bring it back to driveable condition. If the frame is bent or the torque boxes are already in bad shape, the repair costs will go up, and it may be prohibitively expensive to fix. The body parts will be somewhat expensive, but you might be able to find some used pieces at reasonable costs. Some body shops are unwilling to work on fiberglass-bodied cars, but most cities have a shop that specializes in Corvettes, and they'll usually work on Avantis.
Most of the mechanicals are pretty much pure Chevrolet, though those built through the early 80s used Studebaker-based frames, brakes, and suspension components. After that, the underpinning were mostly Chevrolet-based. Some auxiliary components (eg, steering columns) are often sourced from some other company, and can complicate repairs if they need to be repaired and their origin cannot be readily determined.
Nostalgic Motors in Michigan carries many Avanti II-only parts, and would be the first place to contact for major components. Studebaker International in Indiana is primarily focused on Studebakers, but also carries many parts that fit Avanti IIs. The AOAI magazine and web site carry ads for other vendors. You should add up the cost of the parts required, get a rough estimate for the labor, then (as Gunslinger suggests) double it.
You obviously are not interested in fixing the car just so you can sell it, so profit is not a motive. Emotion is obviously very important, but at some point, you may not be able to afford it. If you are reasonably handy, you can save a lot of labor costs by doing routine work yourself. Either way, you need to have a ballpark idea of how much it's gonna cost before you proceed. Good luck and keep us informed.
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Not to highjack this thread, but does anyone have a recommendation for a web site or book that could be used as a primer for automotive air conditioning service by the amateur? I have a couple of cars that use R-12, and still have a almost-full 30-pound bottle of R-12. I don't want waste it learning how to properly service the a/c.
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Bragging about your own ignorance is never a particularly attractive approach.
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"?
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What Gunslinger said. I think we've all encountered people who assert, either in person or on the Net, that their uncle owns the last Duesenberg built or something else equally preposterous. Debating it with such people is like trying to teach a pig to dance.
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I don't disagree with anything you've said. But. For whatever reason, there has been a continuing reluctance by the city of South Bend to preserve or restore very much of anything remaining from the Studebaker era. Notable exceptions are the museum (which has obvious tourist value and still took 20 years to get established) and the Administration Building. In the early years, this reluctance was attributed to bitterness over the economic hit that South Bend took when Stude departed the city, but that explanation doesn't make much sense any more. Many of those in the city that are the most enthusiastic supporters of demolition weren't even born in 1963. Maybe the anti-Stude feelings were the catalyst, but now demolition has almost become a local religion. The city has made it clear for quite some time that it preferred empty lots to anything, no matter how potentially useful, left over from the Stude era. I hope the anti-demolition forces are successful, but they will have to be local in origin to have any impact.
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I also have a 74 and the answer from adamderosa is correct for my car. I think most Avantis of that era came with some kind of driving lights, so I suspect that's what the SPDT switch was for. The rear window defogger on these cars was a fan mounted in the package shelf, not wiring on the glass. Are you sure the other switch doesn't have a middle position? That would fit with the defogger.
Of course, it's also possible that one of the original light switches in the overhead failed and a previous owner used the hole on the console as a convenient place to install a replacement. The OEM switches weren't of very good quality.
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Sure looks like a Tucker to me.
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Just a few items to add to Gunslinger's excellent info. I believe the 400 was installed in 72-76 models. I got a tour of the Avanti plant in 1977 or 78, and was told by their PR person at the time that they would build a car to order with a special-order high performance Corvette engine instead of their standard engine. She claimed that they had built a couple of such cars, but I agree with Gunslinger that I have never seen one that could be verified as such. They had 20 or 30 complete Chevy engine/transmission sets sitting there on pallets, so I can confirm that they bought their power plants (and many other components) in quantity and then stockpiled them.
The 300-hp 327s and 350s used through the 1970 models were designed to run on leaded premium. Compression ratios were reduced in 1971, which knocked the 350 down to 270 gross horsepower. The change to net horsepower occurred in 1972. Requirements for emissions equipment continued to increase all through the 70s. Catalytic converters became required on 1975 modles. All that being said, in most states, vehicles with antique/historic plates are exempt from emissions inspection, so there's really no penalty for removing things like EGR valves and other stuff.
All GM engines carry serial numbers that indicate year, displacement, horsepower, original vehicle line (what GM vehicle it was originally intended to be installed in), and other info. GM apparently just pulled random engines from their production line to sell to Avanti. Although numbers-matching cars are less imprortant in Avanti-dom, it can sometimes be handy to know what is actually installed in an Avanti. Of course, the number won't tell you if the heads, manifolds, cam, etc have been changed by an owner.
Four-speed transmissions were installed in a high proportion of the early Avanti IIs, but that percentage declined with time. Four-speeds were dropped for the 1975 models, as Avanti Motors did not yet have a waiver from the emissions and gas mileage regulations, and did not want to build extra cars for the EPA to test. They eventually got such a waiver and were allowed to piggyback on Chevy's EPA approvals. As a result, Steve Blake brought back both the 4-speed and high-performance engines in a few cars in the early 80s.
As it turns out, I live near both of you.
Avanti II Engines
in 1965-83 Avanti
Posted
Agree with everything Gunslinger said. GM brought out the 400 in 1972 to try to maintain somewhat higher horsepower numbers that were being reduced by two federally mandated factors: (1) the change from gross to net HP as the standard measure, which had the effect of reducing the advertised HP by about 20-25%, and (2) the lowering of compression ratios in expectation of the phase-out of leaded (premium) gas in 1975, which really did lower HP ratings by another 20-25%. Going from 350 ci to 400 ci gave GM another few HP to partially compensate for these losses, both real and imaginary. Avanti Motors was still trying to maintain the image of a quasi-sports/performance car at that time, and the 400 probably was a good compromise between settling for a gutless 307/305 or paying GM a premium price for a Camaro/Corvette 350 with only a few more HP than the 400.
As the 1970s progressed, (1) Avanti Motors began to stress the boulevard cruiser aspect of their cars, (2) the dreadful gas mileage of the 400 became a liability, (3) and the HP ratings of the GM 305 gradually began to climb a bit. So Avanti switched to the 305. They bought engines in lots of 50 or 100 at a time (about a year’s worth most of the time), and tended to buy whatever they could get a good deal on. That was typically whatever GM was using as a base V8.