Skip Lackie
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Posts posted by Skip Lackie
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As I mentioned to Bob a few months ago, I got a tour of Avanti Motors in 1976, and there were several earlier Avantis in the shop for rehab and/or modification -- it was a significant percentage of their business at that time. Given that capability, they may very well have swapped around transmissions or other components on already-built cars to fill firm orders. It's possible that my car was originally assembled with an automatic and later modified to satisfy the order from the Maryland buyer. It might also explain the long delay in filling the order -- but it also means that the "completion" date of any given car cannot be inferred from the serial number alone.
An unrelated factoid: nearly all federal safety and emissions standards become effective on 1 January of a given year, while the model year of most manufacturers starts back in September or October (but it doesn't have to). Avanti Motors took advantage of this on a couple of occasions by building cars to the earlier standard all the way into December, and calling them the earlier model year.
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Mr Lackie is indeed surprised. I had been looking for a 4-speed Avanti II for quite a while, and ended up buying 2127 from a dealer at the Carlisle flea market in 1990. He had painted it in the original bronze color, but everything else was original, including the early console with under-dash parking brake handle. It was ordered through Roger Penn by a man from western Maryland who specified the 4-speed, and the story was that he had to wait almost a year for delivery and had threatened to cancel several times. Delivery was on October 25, 1974. It later went through several other owners, one of whom was (supposedly) Steve Blake. It was supposedly the car that convinced Blake that he should buy the company and re-introduce the standard shift in 1984. I met Blake around 1992, and he confirmed the story -- except that he couldn't remember if my car was the one that he had owned. He said he had owned several, though only one had stick.
I was told that it was the last one built with stick shift due to the impending tightening of the air quality regs in 1975. (Geoff Newman confirmed this fact with me -- the company couldn't afford to build two cars, one with auto and one with stick, for the EPA to test for emissions and gas mileage. This was before the EPA allowed waivers for small manufacturers from the air quality testing standards.) I made the claim that it was the last standard shift car built on a windshield card at the Gettysburg meet. Soon after, I received an anonymous note claiming that my statement was wrong and that THEIR car was the last 4-speed built. The note included the serial number (later than mine) as proof, but I no longer remember what it was. It may have been 2136. So I conceded the issue in the 2011 magazine item. Given that Steve Blake started making Avantis with standard shift again in 1984, it wasn’t really the LAST last anyway.
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Just FYI: If I understand which bolt you are referring to, the Stude part number is 2043x13. Some Stude vendors may be able to provide NOS examples. Studebaker called them screw and washer, but others refer to them as a sheet metal screw with washer. Such fasteners were/are widely used in automotive and other industrial industries where a high-strength nut and bolt are not required. They will almost never be found in a hardware store. Some big auto parts stores will have a limited selection of such fasteners, but probably not all possible designs, thread counts, and lengths. Auveco is usually the best source for specialized automotive fasteners.
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You are correct about the cost of providing vehicles for EPA emissions testing. I have a 74 with 4-speed, either the last or next-to-last one built with standard shift (until the Blake era, when more waivers were available for small manufacturers). According to Geoff Newman, the reason was that beginning in 1975, the EPA required auto manufacturers to provide them with one vehicle with each engine/trans combination for testing -- and Avanti Motors couldn't afford to build two cars just for the EPA to test. So it was easier to drop the stick shift and just loan them one car.
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On 6/4/2019 at 2:35 PM, Ton said:
How many Av-anti's were built with "factory air "
Answering that would require analyzing all Avanti production orders, and I don't think anyone has done that to that level of detail.
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Dayton makes them for nearly everything.
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On 5/26/2019 at 9:16 PM, Avanti Jim said:
Avanti83, I understand what you are saying. I knew that Avanti Motors hand-built these cars to buyer specifications, but I had no idea that they produced so few cars per year. It makes sense that, with such low production numbers, they would do what was necessary to get a car out the door with as little cost as possible. My limitations are similar. I want this car to be nice, but I don't plan to gold plate it. Just getting it on the road again is going to cost a bit of time and money. Having a group that doesn't mind newbie questions is a great resource in itself.
I got a tour of the Avanti "plant" in around 1976-77. Geoff Newman must've been given bum data about how likely I was to buy a new Avanti, as he spent a couple of hours with me. One particular thing I remember was that if one ordered a new Avanti, you were invited to spend a couple of weeks at the factory helping to build your own car. They started by welding the frame rails and cross members together, placed it on a low cart, then pushed it around the building as components were added. A woman assembled the wiring harness by wrapping wires around nails strategically placed on big piece of plywood. Others sewed up the interior pieces. They would make them from whatever material you wanted -- including your grandmother's drapes. They truly were built by hand.
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Addendum to kboyd's comments. If you're gonna actually use your manual and don't mind a bit of soiling, you can find a good used original shop manual on ebay. They're printed in both sides and have good clear illustrations. Since you only need it for the drive train, pick one that covers your engine -- Camaro or Impala/Caprice/Malibu. Prices vary a lot.
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Gary is correct. Many companies already own the rights to the word Avanti for things like refrigerators and cigars. The only way to find out whether anyone still owns the rights to the name or the logo for automotive use would be to search the Patent Office website.
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Agree. I thought of that, but the ready-made aftermarket ones are nicely chrome plated and only cost about $10. Given the commonality of that intake, it just seems like somebody would have made one for it.
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This is really a Chevy engine issue. Have a 74 Avanti with the original 400 ci small block. Intake manifold casting number is 360261, which is listed as being common to several years of both 350 and 400 engines with a 4-bbl. The car is registered as an antique, so it is no longer subject to emissions inspections. Would like to remove the dead Rochester EGR valve and block off the holes in the intake. Bought a Mr Gasket EGR block-off plate listed to fit all Chevy small blocks 283-400. It's triangular with two mounting holes -- but the intake on my engine takes an EGR with a rectangular base (about 2" x 1.75") that is held on by a separate single-bolt clamp. Checked other aftermarket catalogs and they all seem to show the smaller triangular block-off plates. Anyone know of a source for a rectangular block-off plate for my intake?
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Yes. Fasten Seat Belts.
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Agree with arkus and Paul K. Removing or disabling any originally-required emissions equipment is a violation of Federal law. However, the Feds don't have any auto emissions cops, so enforcement is left up to the states. That said, in most states, vehicles with antique/historic plates are exempt from emissions inspection. In others, vehicles older than a certain year are also exempt, even if they have regular plates -- so there's no enforcement mechanism in either case. Add on to that the fact that some components of early emissions-control systems are no longer available and you have a situation in which it makes sense to remove some of that ugly stuff, especially if it's no longer working right anyway. But don't throw it away and be aware you may have to 'fess up if you sell your car later.
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Not sure this will confirm anything, but I found similar numbers on the frame cross members when I sandblasted the frame of my Stude pick up truck. They are believed to be Budd part numbers.
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Gary-
They didn't have the model name, just 1964 Studebaker 2 door. The word Daytona does not appear on the title or registration.
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This problem has become much more common now that DMVs are using computerized data bases whose data were entered by morons. I first registered my 74 Avanti II in DC in 1992, and the clerk used a well-worn book to verify the VIN. The make on the registration was correctly shown as 1974 Avanti.
That was then, this is now: when I recently renewed my historic plates, the make shown on the new registration certificate is "1974 Studebaker". By contrast, the make shown on the registration form for my 64 Daytona is " 1964 unknown".
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3M Heavy Duty trim adhesive #8090 is designed to attach things like headliners and hood insulation. Follow the directions exactly.
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The Potomac Chapter of SDC covers your area.
www.potomacsdc.org
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Bruce --
You may very well be right -- I haven't checked in several years, so my info is probably out of date. I had that factoid in my head from when I was dealing with the DC DMV on whether to exempt historic vehicles from emissions inspection. It was a handy data point to throw down on the table, but may no longer be true. Thanks for the suggestion -- I will pursue an OEM one first, just in case I can repeat your good fortune.
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IRT to Gary's post above regarding New York rules: I understand that a number of states have similar regs. Unfortunately, some of the parts needed to make those early emissions systems function are no longer available. I have a 70 Camaro that has a premium-gas 350 in it that uses a transmission-controlled spark arrangement (only get full advance in 4th gear) to reduce emissions. Several of the parts of that system, such as the solenoid, have been NLA for decades. They still come up on ebay now and then, but for outrageous prices. The Corvette restorers have driven the prices through the roof.
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With respect to the original question about whether you can remove emissions equipment: as a practical matter, yes; as a legal matter, maybe. There is a federal law that makes it illegal to remove or tamper with required emissions-control equipment. There is another federal law that grants EPA with the authority to establish emissions standards. There are numerous EPA regs that implement this authority and require the states to give emissions tests to vehicles in areas that are not in compliance with emissions standards. There is also an EPA reg that allows states to exempt vehicles with antique/historic plates from emissions testing. Most states have done that. So even if the law prohibiting the removal of emissions equipment still applies in some theoretical sense, how are they gonna catch you?
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I would check the grounds on the indicator lamps. Bad grounds are a common problem on fiberglass cars, and can cause weird things like lights that go off when they're turned on and/or coming on dimly when they're off and something else is turned on.
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Avantis look better without the plate. I just keep the front plate under the seat or in the glovebox. Never been stopped or questioned by any law enforcement. If they should ask why no front plate, I'll just tell them that a location was not designed for the front license plate, and in the early '60s many states did not require them. But never was stopped or questioned.
I agree that Avantis look better without a front plate. And I also agree that you're very unlikely to get pulled over for a missing front plate. But if you drive your Avanti anywhere except to car shows, you could still get a ticket. I got a $40 ticket for no front plate a few years ago, while my car was parked at a meter in Arlington, Virginia. Both Virginia and DC (where my car is registered) require two plates, and have always done so (except during WWII).
And BTW, very few states have switched from only issuing one plate to requiring two. The few that have changed have generally gone from having two plates to only one.
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My Dupont book shows 1968 Cadillac Monterey Green Firemist Metallic Lucite as 4928LH.
Stick Avantis!
in Avanti Trivia
Posted
Bob-
I vote for yours on the basis of the of the console and parking brake mounting location. Yours was obviously COMPLETED later, regardless of the delivery date. Though that raises a question: What is really last: assembly finished last, or delivered last?
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