Gunslinger
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Posts posted by Gunslinger
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That ad doesn't say much. If it's as advertised, the price may be a bit on the high side to some, but considering what it costs to fix an Avanti that needs frame work or hog troughs, that may not be an unreasonable asking price. Avanti's after Nate Altman passed away allegedly suffered from indifferent quality control and less than sterling performance from the 305 engine, though that's not exclusive to Avanti's but pretty much across the board industry wide.
If everything is as nice as the ad says and all the power accessories work well, it's definitely cheaper than rebuilding a lesser car. You won't have a particularly collectible car (as Avanti's go) but a nice driver.
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What is the price and the description? I don't get Turning Wheels.
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That's why I particularly avoided Avanti's with sunroofs and '87-'91 cars...too many parts that their source is unknown for repair or replacement (as well as no shop manual) plus the legendary and inevitable leaks. The sunroofs were adapted from a generic design (or from a Lincoln depending on model year and who you talk to) instead of being designed specifically for an Avanti.
The tube you found is probably the drain. I understand it drains into the hog troughs. Since they're not drilled to allow water to escape, they're a rust problem waiting to happen from day one.
As far as the rear deck goes, I would get a sheet of acrylic and cut it to shape and cover it with matching upholstery...that problem won't occur again.
As far as the headliner goes, I don't have answer. If it's like the Stude design, the shop manual can tell you how to replace the headliner. What a local Avanti owner did with his '85 (he owns a body shop), is obtain a new roof from Dan Booth at Nostalgic and slice off the original roof and graft on the solid roof in its place and no more problem. Of course, he owns the body shop and gave daily supervision to the work being done.
Not saying this is an option for other Avanti owners with sunroof problems...this was a pretty extreme resolution to the problem by someone who owns a body shop.
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Great for you! Now you have two different generation Avanti's to enjoy! Once you're done with the restoration of the R2, you can start looking for a Blake generation car, a Kelly and Kelly/Caffaro and finally a Villa Rica/Cancun car to add to your stable!
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That tri-power setup...what does it fit...big block Chevy? If so, does the intake have square exhaust ports or oval ports. A lot of Corvette guys might give up a gonad for that setup, depending on date codes, etc.
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Metric speedometers were listed in the parts manual, so they were inventoried for at least the potential of overseas sales. How many were actually factory installed would be difficult to determine without someone going over the production sheet for every Avanti Studebaker built and making a database to draw from. That would be quite the project, to say the least.
I would expect the number of metric speedometers Studebaker ordered (presumably from Stewart Warner) would be unknown short of someone finding documents such as purchase orders, invoices and inventory sheets...either Studebaker or Stewart Warner. It's possible Studebaker only ordered them when they had a firm order for a car to be exported to a country that required metric. That's sounds unlikely as I would think they wanted a supply in inventory, but who knows? They must have kept some in inventory or they wouldn't have assigned a part number to standardize one.
I can't think of ever seeing an Avanti with a metric speedometer installed, but obviously there was at least one (yours) and possibly more. Outside of any that might have gone to parts depots, I would expect any metric speedometers would have been sold to Avanti Motor Corporation when they purchased all rights and tooling for the Avanti plus all spare parts. Dan Booth purchased the supposedly entire inventory of pre-1987 Avanti parts in the late 1980's. If he never found any of these speedometers than it's likely the supply of them was exhausted prior to that date...if they ever existed at all in any numbers.
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Here's copies of the 1975 and 1980 price lists...I don't seem to have 1976-1979, but these can give you a ballpark idea of what your car originally retailed for. The options don't seem to have risen as fast as the MSRP of the basic car did, though some of the increases were due to previously optional items like power steering, tilt steering wheel, electric antenna, etc., being made standard. If I come up with an actual 1978 price list, I'll post it.
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Most places would list a "Zip Kit" which is only a few parts, not a complete rebuild kit...if they have anything at all. You might try a local carb rebuild shop but the best thing is probably a vendor like Jon Myers who does this service for a living.
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I believe that the ratio in the manual steering box is different to the power steering one. Whether that makes any difference i'm not sure.
pb
The manual steering does have a different ratio (22:1 I believe), though a faster ratio (16:1 power steering ratio...again I'm not sure) was a special order option, but greatly increased steering effort. It has to do with mechanical advantage...make the manual steering easier to turn, but at an increased number of turns lock-to-lock of the steering wheel. It effectively increased the turning radius of the car.
To add power steering to a manual steering car you should change the steering box as well...unless it has the optional quick steering ratio. Without changing the steering box from 22:1 to the 16:1 ratio, you're really not gaining any performance...just a little less effort.
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Will do...the 2002-2007 models pop up on Ebay every now and then.
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The market is somewhat slim on the 2001-2007 Avanti's since so few were built. This is just a guess but I'd say a price range of $25k-$40k for one in good shape and whether it's a coupe or convertible, supercharged, or in the case of the 2006-2007 models, V6 or V8. I could be way off in that price range as the market is pretty roiled right now, and Avanti's have never been a blue chip investment.
As far as guns go...I'm more into collecting these days than shooting. Actually, I'm in a selling mood...way too many that I don't or have never fired. I'm big into Colt handguns as well as Colt rifles and shotguns. Way too many Weatherby's. I'm also into M1 Garands, M1903 Springfields, an even a couple of 1941 Johnsons. Others as well, depending on how they interested me at the time. I'm formerly a law enforcement firearms instructor...taught handgun, shotgun and submachine gun. I shot competitively for a while as well, but rarely get to the range these days.
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There's no real way of telling what an AVX might be worth since none have been on the market to set a value. There were only three (or six) made, depending on the source. Most believe only three were built...one coupe, one convertible and one T-Top. As far as build quality, it will take someone who has actually inspected one to give you an idea. They were built on converted mid-'90s Firebird chassis...most likely with LT1 engines. Besides the obvious differences (coupe, convertible, T-Top), there appears to be various detail differences between them.
It would be easier to find a 2001-2007 Avanti built on either the TransAm or Mustang platforms...somewhat under a hundred were assembled. Even there there's detail differences...my '02 doesn't have additional tail lights in the trunk lid...earlier '02s did. Mine has chrome "Avanti" emblems...some had blacked out script. All were more or less prototypes it seems, with various things being tried out.
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Does anyone have more information on the Jensen Interceptor. Your post is the very first time I've ever heard of this car.
There's lots of information online about them. Wikipedia is a good start but there's tons of info on websites.
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The Interceptor has always reminded me of the Avanti...definitely the same design themes. It came out in 1966, so the Avanti design was quite recent and may have influenced it. Jensen didn't design it in-house...they had an Italian firm design it. Performance-wise...the Interceptor came with big-block Mopars so I would think it could stomp an Avanti from a standing start. Top speed...who knows? That could depend on how the cars were set up...R1 or R2, transmission, rear axle ratio, etc.
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I bought reproductions from Nostalgic Motors a couple of years ago...they look and fit great, but others have said the ones they got from Nostalgic didn't fit well. It may depend on what particular lot they were cast. You might try Studebaker International as well. I can't think of seeing NOS housings come up on Ebay, but occasionally good used ones show up. Vendors like Jon Myers may have good used in inventory.
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Without trying to sound like a smart aleck, any part is only worth as much as anyone is willing to pay for it. Timing is everything and you have little to no control over that. You might put a particular part on Ebay and it pulls in far less than you might expect. Then put the same part on Ebay next month and now several people might be looking for it that weren't the month before and get into a bidding war. All you can do take your chances on Ebay...start with a low opening bid and set a reserve if you feel it necessary.
Even NOS parts can go for varying dollar amounts. Someone who pays full price from a vendor gets a warranty with it in case it's defective or is otherwise dissatisfied with it. You don't, or rarely get that with buying from Ebay, so identical parts should sell for less that way...with a big "but" on that...I've seen many parts go for far more on Ebay than from vendors simply because the purchaser doesn't know where to look for the parts otherwise.
It's a fact of Avanti's that they seem to go for more as parts than as complete cars. I wish it were otherwise, but that seems to be the case.
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Hi Gunslinger,
Just for the record I had my '87 Avanti weighted and with the fiberglass body it is 50 lbs. MORE than the Monte Carlo and its steel body. Thats some thick fiberglass.
Jim
I never would have guessed the same chassis with an Avanti body would weigh more than with its original steel body. I wonder if the GM specs for the Mone Carlo's weight were wrong? Maybe it depends on how "empty" weight is measured...with or without fuel, etc?
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I'll be looking at an 88 Avanti later this week. I know it does not have hog troughs but is mounted on a full Chevy frame. Does this in any way compromise the handling characteristics, ride, steer etc. It has a 305 rather than the 350 I would prefer. Should I expect noticeably different acceleration, top end etc? How is this year production viewed compared to older or more recent models/
Thanks, Sal
I would think the car would likely perform as good or better than the Chevy it's based on...lighter fiberglass (or Kevlar) body compared to the original steel body. I understand the concern regarding the 305 engine compared to a 350, but you have to take into account few cars contemporary to it had any better performance. Today it might seem sluggish by comparison, but that can be taken car of by either an engine transplant or some work on the 305, depending on how it runs now and cost/benefit analysis of building the 305 up vs. a new crate engine.
This is my opinion and mine only, so take it with a grain of salt...the advantages of the '88 is a more modern chassis and its better handling over the 1953 design Studebaker chassis. I think availability of chassis parts is probably a wash as Stude parts are easy to come by, though you do have to order them and wait a week for delivery rather than go to a local parts store and ask for chassis parts for a Monte Carlo. The Chevy suspension is far more parts friendly should you desire some performance upgrades. The disadvantages are many of the interior and engine bay parts are non-standard compared to GM or earlier Avanti's and can be difficult to source if needed. Finding exterior trim like the rubber bumpers can be problematic to find should that be necessary. The later cars are definitely nice cars and have a high level of trim and comfort. Maybe someone who owns one of them can give a first hand account of the pluses and minuses of that generation Avanti.
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Considering the age of the car and not knowing what previous owners have done, it may not have the original handle or washer anymore. That chrome ring might be an aftermarket universal piece...check and see if it has an Allen screw holding it onto the knurled knob...if so you'll ned an Allen wrench to remove it.
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The interior is vinyl...that's what Studebaker installed. If it's leather, it's been done by a previous owner. As far as the shocks, mufflers, etc., it all depends on how original and correct you want the car. If the Koni's are in good shape, why change them? Avanti's did have a supercharger option...a Paxton SN-60 to be precise. Photos would help to identify it as the proper supercharger. If your car came from the factory that way, you should also have "Supercharged" or "Supercharged Avanti" emblems on the front quarter panels between the tire openings and the front doors.
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What I did with the loose sunvisors in the '63 I used to own was pull the chrome brackets, wrap some electrical tape around them and reinstall. The tape was inside the sunvisor so it wasn't visible and made them nice and tight and they worked fine.
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My own view is ALL Avanti's are of real importance. Some may have more significance than others, but all are examples of a very limited production automobile that is recognized by the Milestone Car Society as a genuine Milestone Car. I know that due to condition, accidents and economics some are better off parted out. That doesn't mean I have to like it, but another fact is we need donor cars to keep others on the road.
I also wouldn't characterize '64s as of no real importance as they're also examples of all the running change improvements made in the line since production began. In pure numbers, that can make them significant due to their relative rarity proportionately. I know many like the round headlight '63s better, but that's an aesthetic view.
The number I've seen most often is just over 800 true '64 Avanti's were built...that includes square headlight versions and some round headlight versions...I've seen numbers ranging from 30+ to about eighty round headlight cars that are true '64 model year production. There are also numerous '63s not sold and were simply titled as '64s when they did get sold. There were also a handful of prototypes given new serial numbers and sold as '64s also. An accurate set of numbers as to true production is hard to come by...if at all. Without looking at every build sheet for every Avanti built, and building a data base, we'll never know the true figures, and that doesn't take into account those '63s sold and titled as '64s by the dealers.
None of us can tell you whether to sell the '64. It's all a matter of what it's worth to you as it is or for potential sale. Factor into that what someone would be willing to pay you for it can make a difference. An R2 brings a premium...if you have a 4-speed transmission that's another bonus. Some people want a car already restored and want to jump in, turn the key and go. Others don't mind finishing the restoration. All that factors in.
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The first production square headlight Avanti was R4892 so your car is about 77 cars in line behind that in receiving the square headlight treatment, though round headlights were still available as an option until the parts for them ran out. Whether any round headlight cars were actually factory assembled I don't know...I've not seen one but it's possible. There were something like 800+ true '64 Avanti's built with the square headlights. Yours is not rare among '64s, but it most definitely the more uncommon Studebaker Avanti design as all the previous 4600 or so Avanti's were of the round headlight variety...outside of factory specials like R4130 which was the test car for the '64 changes and became Sherwood Egbert's car.
As far as restoring it completely...your money and your choice. It's your car so do what makes you happy.
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I don't believe you'll find the parts at a local parts supplier...even if they listed them, they'd have to order them. You're better off getting the parts from Jon Myers, Studebaker International or Nostalgic Motors. They keep them in stock and you'll know they're the correct parts.
Avanti Brake Question
in 1963-64 Avanti
Posted
I have seen that many times and always wondered what the reason was for. I did a web search and here's what I found (from a Ford forum)...
"The line will vibrate with any movement or vibration from road or engine. The longer the line is straight the more the vibration is amplified. The loop reduces the vibration where it screws into the master cylinder. If you don't put loops in it is likely that you will crack a line where it is flared at the master cylinder. It also helps to have a dampening coil wrapped around the tubing where it is looped."